From Misdiagnosis To Multiple Surgeries: The Hidden Reality Of Fibroids Among Black Women

If someone had told me I’d be working toward my third fibroid surgery in less than six years, I would have had a hard time believing them. First, because obviously, no one wants to ever hear the word "surgery" (unless it’s cosmetic surgery you’re opting for). But the more significant reason is I’d never heard any of the women in my life talk about fibroids, so the idea of having all of the complex issues because of them, on top of surgeries, was truly a foreign concept.
After my doctor told me I’d need a second surgery in March of 2023—a hysteroscopic myomectomy—after bleeding every day for over six months, I was over it. Not just over the symptoms. But I was done feeling siloed on an island dealing with the pain, feeling tired all the time, and the heaviness of what felt like endless trips to the doctor for ultrasounds, blood transfusions, blood count checks, MRIs, etc.
I would try to explain what I was feeling, and my pain was written off because I guess period pain is just supposed to be normal. I’m here to tell you it is not. And because we’ve been conditioned to just deal, that’s the way things should stay. Yeah, no.
What is a hysteroscopic myomectomy? Hysteroscopic myomectomy is the most minimally invasive procedure to treat fibroids. A surgeon removes fibroids by inserting a hysteroscope into the uterine cavity through the vagina and cervix.
So, I wrote and directed an animated short film to bring educational and entertainment value to helping the world learn about fibroids. With $25,000 of my own money, I went forth and made the film titled Super High: A Period Piece. Now, it’s making its rounds on the festival circuit, even gaining entry into two Oscar-qualifying festivals: the Chicago International Film Festival and the New Orleans Film Festival. We even won Best Narrative Short at the Morehouse Human Rights Film Festival in Atlanta.
As I was venturing onto the festival circuit, my editor asked me to write a piece highlighting the experiences of Black women with fibroids. Initially, I planned to highlight up to 15 stories. However, as I started working on this story, I thought hearing the experiences more in-depth would be equally impactful. So, we chatted with four women about their fibroid journeys.
The one thing we all had in common, which made me sad but also made me feel seen, was that none of us knew much about them beforehand. However, our willingness to openly share our stories will hopefully change that for many women now and beyond.
Keep reading for four women’s stories about their journey with fibroids.
Rosco Spears, artist and creative director
Before your journey with fibroids, did you know much about them?
Before my journey with fibroids, I didn't know much about them. I'd never heard of fibroids until women around me started getting diagnosed. I was dealing with heavy, painful periods long before I was privy to any of these diagnoses.
Shortly before I was officially diagnosed with having fibroids (2012), I learned that my sister and other women in my family also had fibroids. As I've grown older, I've learned that my three sisters, many cousins, aunts, etc, have also had fibroids. It's simply an issue that was never discussed.
How did you find out you had fibroids?
I found out that I had fibroids while living in NYC. I was fed up with the pain and discomfort from my period, so I shopped around until I got an answer that I thought made sense. I met a wonderful woman doctor who finally diagnosed me, and she offered me several options for easing the discomfort. During this time, I would often bleed between periods.
In 2013, one of my "in-between" moments was more than the spotting that I was used to, so I took myself to the emergency [room]. I learned that my hemoglobin [levels] were at seven, and the doctors wouldn't let me leave the hospital without getting a blood transfusion. They also highly recommended that I get surgery to remove the fibroids. Once I officially got the diagnosis, it was scary, but it also felt amazing to know that I could begin planning a path forward.
What are hemoglobin levels? To ensure adequate tissue oxygenation—a very important complex dance between the lungs, blood, and cardiovascular system—a sufficient hemoglobin level has to be maintained. The normal Hb level for women is 12 to 16 g/dl. Low hemoglobin levels mean your body isn’t getting enough oxygen, which is why you feel very tired and weak.
If you're comfortable, we'd love to hear about your treatment. Did things go as planned? Were you nervous about what your doctor suggested?
I've had two abdominal myomectomies, one in 2013 (16 fibroids were removed) and another in 2020 (51 fibroids were removed). I was nervous about the idea of being cut open during the myomectomy, but I didn't think that the outcome could be any worse than the pain that I was already dealing with. Both surgeries went just as planned (aside from the 2nd surgery being rescheduled due to COVID-19), and my recovery from both was amazing.
In 2013, I was a bit unhinged. I went location scouting for a photo shoot for The Lip Bar three days after I got home from the hospital. My family was very upset, but I honestly felt fine. I had some abdominal pain, but within two weeks, I was back in the studio on my feet all day. After my second surgery, the plan was to try and have a child shortly after recovery. I took my time with healing and did things according to the book.
What is a myomectomy? A myomectomy is surgery to remove uterine fibroids. There are several types of myomectomies, but the procedure you and your doctor decide is right for you will depend on factors like location, number, and size of your fibroids.
How did you feel post-treatment? How has getting treatment changed your quality of life?
I felt/feel amazing post-treatment! For about 2-3 years after both surgeries, my periods were much lighter, and the pain was light [and] much more bearable than it was with the fibroids. My quality of life is much different post-surgery.
There have been years [when] I simply did not have any energy while I was on my period. The most I could do was get up to go to the bathroom and get right back in bed. Or I'd have to carry a change of clothes with me when traveling to work because I couldn't afford to take off during my period, but I knew that at some point, I would bleed through everything. So, in that regard, life is beautiful. I'm no longer passing out, nor do I feel the need to bring an extra set of pants along on the ride.
While my quality of life has improved tremendously, I often joke and say that I have PTSD from having bad periods. What I mean is that I still check my pants often when I'm on my period. And I still get anxiety if I'm in public and I'm on day two or three of my period because who knows if it is just a little blood that I feel coming down or it's a huge clot that's going to ruin my pants. And I still know better than to try and wash my hair on my heavy days because there isn't enough energy to do both.
For someone just starting their fibroid journey, what are two pieces of advice you'd give them?
You got this, sis! It's a difficult journey, but please seek advice from other women on the journey. If one doctor is not giving you sufficient information, find a new doctor. Make sure you're exploring all of the options for fibroid removal/shrinking treatments [because] it is not one size fits all. And take your iron supplements, boo.
How important do you think it is for us to share our fibroid stories with each other and talk about this openly?
Oh God, if I could pay women to share their fibroid stories, I would. It's imperative that we talk with one another about our experiences in health. I shared my fibroid story years ago because I was so lost when I was on my journey. One of my sisters had the surgery before I did, but other than her, I didn't have anyone to talk to about fibroids.
I felt very alone, isolated, and somewhat embarrassed because it felt like this wasn't happening to anyone else around me. It makes a world of difference when you can talk with someone about an issue they are also facing. We will learn a lot more by discussing shared experiences—much of which you cannot learn from talking to your doctor or Google.
La-Anna Douglas, women’s advocate and motivational speaker
Before your journey with fibroids, did you know much about them?
Being someone who started my period at the age of 10, I was in the dark when it pertained to fibroids and other reproductive health issues. I had never heard of fibroids, and I didn’t know that the pain I was experiencing, along with fertility delays, was because of the fibroids sitting in between my two uteruses. The pelvic pain, excruciating periods, fatigue, and protruding belly to someone else would have been a dead giveaway. But I had no idea what was going on with my body. I also did not know of anyone in my family dealing with fibroids.
How did you find out you had fibroids?
I was diagnosed with fibroids by a reproductive endocrinologist [and] was finally properly diagnosed after suffering for 16 years. I finally found a doctor willing to listen to my concerns and, most of all, believed that I wasn’t making it up. She scheduled me for a thorough examination, and I was soon scheduled for laparoscopic surgery. I was diagnosed with three fibroids, endometriosis, and a uterus didelphys (two uteruses and two cervixes).
Uterus didelphys is a rare congenital condition where you're born with two uteruses. It's commonly called a double uterus.
Again, I was misdiagnosed for years, and my pain was minimized. I was labeled as the girl with bad periods. I would have cramps for 3-4 days on my left side of my belly and then cramps for 3-4 days on my right. In actuality, I was having two periods from two different uteruses with three fibroids pressing on my wombs with endometriosis wrapped around my fallopian tubes and my uterus. When I heard all of the different diagnoses, I was angry, overwhelmed, scared, and confused. But the worst thing is that I was unprepared mentally and emotionally for the diagnosis and the journey ahead.
"I was misdiagnosed for years, and my pain was minimized. I was labeled as the girl with bad periods. In actuality, I was having two periods from two different uteruses with three fibroids pressing on my wombs with endometriosis wrapped around my fallopian tubes and my uterus."
If you're comfortable, we'd love to hear about your treatment. Did things go as planned? Were you nervous about what your doctor suggested?
I was told not to worry about removing the fibroids surgically after being diagnosed in my 20s back in 2008. But in 2020, during the pandemic, my pain started to escalate again. So, I was scheduled for an ultrasound, an MRI, and then a double-balloon procedure. I was told that my fibroids had grown and they were contributing to the secondary infertility I was experiencing. My doctor gave me two options. Would I rather have a hysterectomy?
I had already gone through 30 years of horrible periods, eight years of infertility [and] finally having a miracle baby in 2013 by God’s grace, and I had already gone through multiple procedures. Or I could do the robotic laparoscopic myomectomy, where they would remove the fibroids and open my two cervixes by also doing a hysteroscopy. At first, [I] wanted to do a hysterectomy, but [after] talking to my family and praying about it, I decided on having the robotic laparoscopic myomectomy. I was a little nervous but knew I was in good hands.
What is a laparoscopic myomectomy? A laparoscopic myomectomy is a minimally invasive procedure to remove uterine fibroids. A surgeon makes four tiny incisions in your abdomen and then uses a laparoscope, which is a special instrument that contains a light and video camera, to operate through the incisions.
How did you feel post-treatment? How has getting treatment changed your quality of life?
Post-treatment, I felt relieved and grateful. The healing journey was okay. I had a lot of support from my family, especially my husband. After the healing, [I am] loving on my body because the many scars on my belly are my beauty marks. I started to get more confident in who I was. The doctor who did the robotic laparoscopic myomectomy believed that I would get pregnant again.
Well, six months after the surgery, I became pregnant with our second miracle baby girl after eight years of secondary infertility at the age of 40. And to think, [had] I decided on the hysterectomy, she would not be here. Our surprise baby has brought so much happiness to our family.
For someone just starting their fibroid journey, what are two pieces of advice you'd give them?
For anyone just beginning their fibroid journey, my advice would be to advocate for yourself no matter what the diagnosis may be. Your voice matters, and you control your narrative. If the doctor is not listening to you or your concerns, you have every right to seek a second, third, fourth, or as many opinions as you wish until you are heard and properly cared for. KNOW YOUR WORTH!
[And,] to always love on yourself through the journey with fibroids and anything else you may be going through. YOU ARE ENOUGH. The physical scars and the invisible scars are your beauty marks. And share with others how you are feeling and what you are going through. Please do not suffer in silence!
How important do you think it is for us to share our fibroid stories with each other and talk about this openly?
It is so important that we share our journey with fibroids because there is power in supportive stories. We all must realize that we are not alone. There are so many of us who have similar situations going on or may be feeling the same feelings you may be feeling.
Sharing your story also helps to heal those hurts that happen on the road to diagnosis. Healing taps into the strength that has been lying dormant inside of us, and when that strength is ignited, there is nothing that can stop you from advocating for yourself and others who begin to share their stories with you.
Dawn Heels, award-winning fibroid advocate and campaigner
Before your journey with fibroids, did you know much about them?
I knew absolutely nothing about fibroids apart from the fact that my mum had one (she found out when she was pregnant with me), but even with this information, she didn't know anything about them.
How did you find out you had fibroids?
I had always suffered [from] extremely heavy, painful periods. I thought [this] was normal, [so] I didn't link it to the fact that something could be wrong with me. I first discovered I had fibroids after experiencing constant pain in the left-hand side of my abdomen in 2016. During an ultrasound scan, I was told I had 2 x 4 cm fibroids by the sonographer.
Two types of ultrasound scan can be used to help diagnose fibroids: an abdominal ultrasound scan – where the ultrasound probe is moved over the outside of your tummy (abdomen) a transvaginal ultrasound scan – where a small ultrasound probe is inserted into your vagina.
I hadn’t a clue what they were, and when I went back to see my doctor, he told me that I had nothing to worry about because fibroids were common, normal, and I should deal with any pain with a hot water bottle and ibuprofen. And because he told me I had nothing to worry about, at that moment, I didn’t worry.
If you're comfortable, we'd love to hear about your treatment. Did things go as planned? Were you nervous about what your doctor suggested?
Over the next six years, my pain and suffering got worse. I displayed horrendous fibroid symptoms: bum cheek pain, leg pain, painful, heavy, clotty periods, lower back pain, extreme pain, abdominal/pelvic pain, early pregnancy symptoms, tiredness, ‘preggo belly,’ painful sex, long periods and was infertile. I finally saw a consultant who changed my life, as he was the first person to listen to me and put a plan in place.
"He transvaginally scanned me and told me I actually had at least six fibroids, the biggest being the size of a grapefruit, and with that, I would have to have an open myomectomy."
He transvaginally scanned me and told me I actually had at least six fibroids, the biggest being the size of a grapefruit, and with that, I would have to have an open myomectomy. I cried so many tears because I thought if I was to ever have an operation that resembled the C-section, I would be giving birth to a baby, not tumors! The operation was a success, and he removed 16 fibroids and left 2 in to give me a chance at conceiving. I lost a lot of blood and had an emergency blood transfusion one week later.
After eight weeks of healing, I started to feel much better.
How did you feel post-treatment? How has getting treatment changed your quality of life?
The open myomectomy gave me my life back—a good quality of life. I wasn’t in pain anymore. My periods were shorter and significantly lighter, and best of all, I fell pregnant six months after surgery!
What is an open myomectomy? An abdominal, or open, myomectomy removes fibroids through an incision in the abdomen, typically on the bikini line. The recovery time generally lasts up to six weeks.
For someone just starting their fibroid journey, what are two pieces of advice you'd give them?
Educate yourself on the condition so you can guide the conversation and ask relevant questions when going into your consultations. Advocate for yourself, too! Too many of us will just agree to all sorts of nonsense just because the medical professional says so! You are the expert over your own body, so speak up!
How important do you think it is for us to share our fibroid stories with each other and talk about this openly?
I became an ‘accidental’ advocate because I shared my story. My inbox was inundated with messages from other ladies who had suffered or were currently suffering. That’s how powerful a share is.
Camille Austin, model and content creator
Before your journey with fibroids, did you know much about them? For example, did you know what symptoms to look out for?
I did not know much, if not anything at all. So, I did not know what symptoms to look out for.
Did you know if anyone in your family had ever dealt with them?
Yes, my mother, but she was already going through menopause, so our symptoms did not seem comparable.
How did you find out you had fibroids?
[I went] to my primary care physician, who is also a WOC. She performed a pelvic exam, and when I told her about all of my symptoms, she thought it was fibroids. It took a while and [was] frankly [an] annoying process to finally get to an MRI where they found three fibroids, one the size of 15cm.
And how did you feel once you got the official diagnosis?
I felt relieved and scared—scared about what this meant about my fertility. [But,] relieved that I had answers and I was going to get better.
If you're comfortable, we'd love to hear about your treatment. Did things go as planned? Were you nervous about what your doctor suggested?
I had to have surgery due to the size [of my fibroid.] I had an open and laparoscopic procedure done and was on the table for eight hours. I did not initially trust my surgeon as she wanted to jump straight into a hysterectomy. Common practice says that the only way to stop them from ever coming back is through a hysterectomy, which I find to be a bit extreme. To me, it sounds like it's just under-researched, and not enough efforts are being made because this largely impacts WOC, but I digress.
"My surgeon thought because I'm so young, healthy, and strong, she did not put me on a hospital list, which gives another doctor the ability to treat me overnight should something happen. Well, something happened."
My surgeon thought because I'm so young, healthy, and strong, she did not put me on a hospital list, which gives another doctor the ability to treat me overnight should something happen. Well, something happened. I found out I'm allergic to Dilaudid (a common pain med). I broke out and had a third-degree chemical burn around my stomach from the adhesive, and my skin completely broke out. There was not a doctor available to give me even so much as a Benadryl to ease the discomfort. Nurses can't prescribe meds.
It wasn't until I threatened to leave the hospital—I got up and packed my bags—that I received a pink Benadryl pill after waiting for about 6 hours. About a week after I got home, I broke into a fever and was septic. I was rushed back to the hospital and had to spend an additional four days. In short, the healing process did not go according to plan.
After your difficult hospital experience and healing journey, how did you feel post-treatment? How has getting treatment changed your quality of life?
After treatment, I felt so much better after everything was said and done. I would still get the surgery if I had to do it again. When I eventually healed, my periods were shorter. I could fit my clothes again, and I just had more energy to do things since I was not as anemic.
For someone just starting their fibroid journey, what are two pieces of advice you'd give them?
[First,] push for that MRI sooner than later. If you catch them when they are small, you can look into non-invasive ways to get rid of them.
Make sure your doctor has a hospital list, and ask who will be in charge of taking care of you when your doctor is not around.
What does an MRI mean for fibroids? An MRI uses a magnetic field and radio waves to create computerized, 3D images of the uterus. These images can help your doctor decide which treatment is best for you and rule out other issues like adenomyosis and endometriosis.
How important do you think it is for us to share our fibroid stories with each other and talk about this openly?
I think it's important because we can all learn from each other, and this is not just becoming a "woman over 30" problem. According to my doctors, I was far too young, and due to my age, this was something that went unnoticed. Frankly, it should not have been a far stretch because I have fibroids in my breast tissue as well, but somehow, no correlation has been made.
So we have to press the issue, so hopefully, we can look into why this is happening to so many women and not allow a hysterectomy to be the first response.
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Featured image by Shutterstock
Originally published on October, 2, 2024
Because We Are Still IT, Girl: It Girl 100 Returns
Last year, when our xoNecole team dropped our inaugural It Girl 100 honoree list, the world felt, ahem, a bit brighter.
It was March 2024, and we still had a Black woman as the Vice President of the United States. DEI rollbacks weren’t being tossed around like confetti. And more than 300,000 Black women were still gainfully employed in the workforce.
Though that was just nineteen months ago, things were different. Perhaps the world then felt more receptive to our light as Black women.
At the time, we launched It Girl 100 to spotlight the huge motion we were making as dope, GenZennial Black women leaving our mark on culture. The girls were on the rise, flourishing, drinking their water, minding their business, leading companies, and learning to do it all softly, in rest. We wanted to celebrate that momentum—because we love that for us.
So, we handpicked one hundred It Girls who embody that palpable It Factor moving through us as young Black women, the kind of motion lighting up the world both IRL and across the internet.
It Girl 100 became xoNecole’s most successful program, with the hashtag organically reaching more than forty million impressions on Instagram in just twenty-four hours. Yes, it caught on like wildfire because we celebrated some of the most brilliant and influential GenZennial women of color setting trends and shaping culture. But more than that, it resonated because the women we celebrated felt seen.
Many were already known in their industries for keeping this generation fly and lit, but rarely received recognition or flowers. It Girl 100 became a safe space to be uplifted, and for us as Black women to bask in what felt like an era of our brilliance, beauty, and boundless influence on full display.
And then, almost overnight, it was as if the rug was pulled from under us as Black women, as the It Girls of the world.
Our much-needed, much-deserved season of ease and soft living quickly metamorphosed into a time of self-preservation and survival. Our motion and economic progression seemed strategically slowed, our light under siege.
The air feels heavier now. The headlines colder. Our Black girl magic is being picked apart and politicized for simply existing.
With that climate shift, as we prepare to launch our second annual It Girl 100 honoree list, our team has had to dig deep on the purpose and intention behind this year’s list. Knowing the spirit of It Girl 100 is about motion, sauce, strides, and progression, how do we celebrate amid uncertainty and collective grief when the juice feels like it is being squeezed out of us?
As we wrestled with that question, we were reminded that this tension isn’t new. Black women have always had to find joy in the midst of struggle, to create light even in the darkest corners. We have carried the weight of scrutiny for generations, expected to be strong, to serve, to smile through the sting. But this moment feels different. It feels deeply personal.
We are living at the intersection of liberation and backlash. We are learning to take off our capes, to say no when we are tired, to embrace softness without apology.
And somehow, the world has found new ways to punish us for it.

In lifestyle, women like Kayla Nicole and Ayesha Curry have been ridiculed for daring to choose themselves. Tracee Ellis Ross was labeled bitter for speaking her truth about love. Meghan Markle, still, cannot breathe without critique.
In politics, Kamala Harris, Letitia James, and Jasmine Crockett are dragged through the mud for standing tall in rooms not built for them.
In sports, Angel Reese, Coco Gauff, and Taylor Townsend have been reminded that even excellence will not shield you from racism or judgment.

In business, visionaries like Diarrha N’Diaye-Mbaye and Melissa Butler are fighting to keep their dreams alive in an economy that too often forgets us first.
Even our icons, Beyoncé, Serena, and SZA, have faced criticism simply for evolving beyond the boxes society tried to keep them in.
From everyday women to cultural phenoms, the pattern is the same. Our light is being tested.

And yet, somehow, through it all, we are still showing up as that girl, and that deserves to be celebrated.
Because while the world debates our worth, we keep raising our value. And that proof is all around us.
This year alone, Naomi Osaka returned from motherhood and mental health challenges to reach the semifinals of the US Open. A’ja Wilson claimed another MVP, reminding us that beauty and dominance can coexist. Brandy and Monica are snatching our edges on tour. Kahlana Barfield Brown sold out her new line in the face of a retailer that had been canceled. And Melissa Butler’s company, The Lip Bar, is projecting a forty percent surge in sales.

We are no longer defining strength by how much pain we can endure. We are defining it by the unbreakable light we continue to radiate.
We are the women walking our daily steps and also continuing to run solid businesses. We are growing in love, taking solo trips, laughing until it hurts, raising babies and ideas, drinking our green juice, and praying our peace back into existence.
We are rediscovering the joy of rest and realizing that softness is not weakness, it is strategy.
And through it all, we continue to lift one another. Emma Grede is creating seats at the table. Valeisha Butterfield has started a fund for jobless Black women. Arian Simone is leading in media with fearless conviction. We are pouring into each other in ways the world rarely sees but always feels.

So yes, we are in the midst of societal warfare. Yes, we are being tested. Yes, we are facing economic strain, political targeting, and public scrutiny. But even war cannot dim a light that is divinely ours.
And we are still shining.
And we are still softening.
And we are still creating.
And we are still It.

That is the quiet magic of Black womanhood, our ability to hold both truth and triumph in the same breath, to say yes, and to life’s contradictions.
It is no coincidence that this year, as SheaMoisture embraces the message “Yes, And,” they stand beside us as partners in celebrating this class of It Girls. Because that phrase, those two simple words, capture the very essence of this moment.
Yes, we are tired. And we are still rising.
Yes, we are questioned. And we are the answer.
Yes, we are bruised. And we are still beautiful.

This year’s It Girl 100 is more than a list. It is a love letter to every Black woman who dares to live out loud in a world that would rather she whisper. This year’s class is living proof of “Yes, And,” women who are finding ways to thrive and to heal, to build and to rest, to lead and to love, all at once.
It is proof that our joy is not naive, our success not accidental. It is the reminder that our light has never needed permission.
So without further ado, we celebrate the It Girl 100 Class of 2025–2026.
We celebrate the millions of us who keep doing it with grace, grit, and glory.
Because despite it all, we still shine.
Because we are still her.
Because we are still IT, girl.
Meet all 100 women shaping culture in the It Girl 100 Class of 2025. View the complete list of honorees here.
Featured image by xoStaff
How Les Alfred & Kayla Greaves Built Their "It Girl" Brands With Intention
It’s not always easy being an “It Girl,” but Les Alfred, host of She’s So Lucky podcast, and Kayla Greaves, beauty expert, reporter and consultant, never promised it would be. Instead, the two creators are forging their own paths based on resilience. Les originally launched her podcast, formerly Balanced Black Girl, from her bedroom in Seattle after creating fitness content elsewhere online.
Last year, she left her corporate job to scale the Dear Media-hosted series, which she rebranded earlier this year. Meanwhile, Kayla has worked as a journalist and editor, including for InStyle as Executive Beauty Editor. In 2023, she left the company to focus on consulting, hosting and speaking engagements.
Despite launching media careers from different pathways, the two New York-based women have forged a friendship where they can discuss their ambitions and challenges.
Both women are part of xoNecole’s It Girl 100 Class of 2025, recognized in the Viral Voices category for the impact they’ve made through storytelling, creativity, and authenticity. Together, they represent what it means to build an "It Girl" brand with integrity and depth. In the spirit of SheaMoisture’s "Yes, And" ethos, Les and Kayla embody the freedom to be multi-layered as women evolving boldly into every version of themselves.
This conversation has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity
On Forging Their Own Paths
Les Alfred: Being a Jane of all trades is incredibly challenging. And one of the challenges I've faced is that the scope of what podcasters now need to do has increased so much. When I first interviewed you in 2019, I was still very new at it, but I remember being on a Skype call with you from my bedroom in Seattle. That was how I ran the show. And that was good enough. That is absolutely not good enough these days. The scope and the quality keeps increasing, but the resources that you have don't necessarily increase in order to remain competitive.
I get asked so many questions from people who want to get into podcasts and they want to get started. Most of the time, I'm just like, 'I don't have tips for you.' Because, one, I don't know what it's like to start in this current environment. Two, I know what it takes to contend and be consistent in this environment. The barrier of entry is a lot higher in terms of having something of quality than it was before.
On Balancing Ambition and Rest
Kayla Greaves: I've had to make a very clear effort to slow down and just not take on as much. Yes, you're running a business, but you're also living your life. I had one of those days yesterday. I just laid down and listened to white noise for hours because I just needed my brain to just be clear. I called a friend. I cried.
I'm starting over again today. The sun is out. It's a new day. And that's just sometimes what you have to do. You can't show up for your audience or for other people, if you can't show for yourself. I think that creativity comes from a place of living your life and having genuine experiences, and then sharing those experiences through your art.
"I had to give myself permission to let myself grow publicly in ways that I'd already done personally."

Courtesy
On Evolving Through Growth and Rebranding
Les: I didn't create Balanced Black Girl until 2018, but I started blogging and creating content and doing things under the Balanced brand in 2014. I was 24 years old at the time. Now, I'm 36. The things that were important to me, the perspective that I had and the stories I wanted to tell were entirely different. I think I had to give myself permission to let myself grow publicly in ways that I'd already done personally. The show isn't really about wellness anymore. And that shift started happening a couple of years ago.
When we started expanding into more lifestyle topics, more self-help topics [and] talking about entrepreneurship, the audience responded really well. That was when the show really started to grow and take off. And that was what got so much more engagement than the episodes back in 2020 when I was doing hour-long deep dives on gut health.
Rebranding the show was something I've been thinking about for a long time. When I was finally like, 'Oh, I need to do this,' honestly, was the 2024 presidential election. I was like, these people are about to be in here acting crazy. I do not feel safe with my business name being what it is. I don't want to be targeted for any BS. We saw what they did to the Fearless Fund.
"You have to balance your integrity with your income."

Courtesy
On Integrity Over Income
Kayla: I have many other interests aside from beauty. I'm growing and I'm changing as a person. I'm not the same person I was when I started at InStyle in 2019 before the pandemic rocked everybody's world. I don't think reviewing every single lipstick that comes out is exciting or interesting, because everybody does it now, and everybody feels like they're qualified to speak on things that they're not qualified to speak on. I'm currently in that pain point of growth.
I don't think I have always been in environments where I've been encouraged to branch out on my own ideas. I finished Ina Garten’s memoir maybe a month ago. She kept repeating this quote in her book. She said, ‘What goes in early, goes in deep.’ Now that I'm on my own and I don't have the resources of a traditional media company, which is what I have become accustomed to, sometimes it's difficult for me to be like, 'Okay, just go ahead with the thing.'
I think, Les, just the other day, you reposted somebody saying that they let go of a five-figure deal and then got double the next day because it just didn't feel aligned for them. Those are the things that happen. I have to find a balance of, 'Okay, how do I keep myself afloat?' And that may mean I may not be balling out of control just yet, but I'm okay for now. I can buy myself nice things every once in a while, but you have to balance your integrity with your income.
Les: There are just certain lines that I'm not willing to cross. Especially when I created more wellness content, one of those lines was I will not promote any sort of weight loss product. All of these GLP-1s all want to advertise on my podcast. I actually have nothing against those types of products, but I don't ever want someone to look at what I'm putting into the world and think that I'm saying that they need to feel a certain way about their bodies.
Even if the money is great, that's not for me to say, and that's not the type of message that I want to put out here. Or, I had another kind of brand deal come through that would have required me to divulge things about my personal life that I just don't really want my audience knowing about me, and bringing them along on journeys that I just find personal and I want to keep offline. I don’t want to be known for dragging my mess all over the internet for a buck.
I don't want to be known for being an influencer. I would love to be 1,000% in on my podcast, scale it, have it grow to be a media empire where I'm producing and putting out other bodies of work. For now, until that other side of the business really picks up and gets to the point where I want it to be, I kind of need to play the influencer game a little bit to live in this expensive city. But I'm gonna do it on my terms. It's a constant compromise that I'm coming to with myself.
"You can never make a big vision come to fruition if you're sitting and you're waiting for somebody else to tell you exactly what to do."

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On Mutual Admiration and Friendship
Les: Something that I really admire about you in having known you for the past couple of years is you don't wait for a roadmap. You jump in, you roll up your sleeves, and you do it. You can never make a big vision come to fruition if you're sitting and you're waiting for somebody else to tell you exactly what to do.
Kayla: Well, first of all, I want to say thank you for saying that, because that means so much to me, and it's very affirming. That's exactly how I feel about you. I remember, even at your first live show, you're like, ‘Oh my god, I'm so stressed. I don't know what I'm doing.’ And, the shit sold out. And, you know, and now, like, you see the growth of the podcast. And you have nearly 61,000 subscribers on YouTube. I just checked recently.
I talk a lot about people that really just need to not say anything on the internet, because it's so frustrating as somebody who grew up as a traditional journalist. You want people to fact check and ask thoughtful questions and have good conversations. I've never said that about you. I've always loved your podcast. And I've sent a lot of your episodes to friends when they're going through specific things that you're talking about.
This season has been a little bit slower to me, so you've been a constant source of inspiration, and it's just been such a pleasure to see your podcast grow despite the challenges you've had. I know it's not easy, but you continue to grow and continue to push through, and I really admire that as somebody who sat and cried yesterday and listened to white noise.
And this is why I tell you all the time, you really do inspire me. I love you a lot.
Les: Oh my gosh, I love you a lot. I'm so glad that the podcast brought us together.
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