
Debbie Allen And Norm Nixon Have Been Married For 40 Years. She Credits These 3 Things.

A hill that I will forever and a day die on is, (sometimes) questionable press aside, if you want some pretty good marriage counseling that is absolutely free, walk up into a Cracker Barrel before noon. I can’t tell you how many one-liners that have stayed with me after having impromptu conversations with the married senior couples who are up in there — and yes, they have been of all ethnicities.
In the meantime, if you’re curious about if there are any celebrities in cyberspace who have some gems to share, there are actually a few.
For instance, take Denzel and Pauletta Washington who’ve been married 41 years this past June. Denzel has been very candid about how he’s found “his very good thing” (including the fact that she paid the cab fare for their first date for all of you coffee date haters) and Pauletta has made it very clear that marriage requires a lot of work; that there is no “secret formula.”
Then there’s Samuel L. Jackson and his wife of 45 years next August, LaTanya. Just recently, he made headlines for saying, “I’ve done s--- in my marriage that’s crazy, you know? She has, too, in her head, or whatever in reality, but you got to go, 'Is that a breakup offense?' Or is it just that we need to spend a little time together and get some understanding about it?"
And then there’s choreographer, director, producer, actor — so many other “ers” and “ors” supreme, Debbie Allen. She and her former NBA player husband, Norm Nixon, celebrated 40 years of marriage this past spring. There are a few pearls of wisdom that she shared in a PEOPLE article that I want to tell you about; then, I’d like to add a couple of tips of my own.
Hopefully, by the time this piece is done, all of the content will serve as confirmation that if you truly want a marriage that will really go the distance, it’s not always gonna be a rom-com (those are scripted films) or a fairy tale (those are unbelievable stories for children).
Y’all, a long-term marriage is definitely where the big kids play. It’s not for the faint of heart, the selfish of the soul, or the people who don’t say what they mean and mean what they say when they speak their wedding vows. Yeah, “til death do us part” requires sweat equity, for sure. When it comes to building something beautiful, it can be worth your while, though.
Three Things That Have Kept Debbie Allen’s Marriage Together
Okay, first, a big round of applause for the fact that Debbie will be 75 in January and Norm is 68 this month (yep, Debbie married a younger man. Somebody needed that pointed out as a confirmation for their own relationship…call it a feeling). Next, just look at how smooth they move and — shoot — how limber Norm is in this here IG post! Yeah, something tells me that they’ve got (eh hem) another thing that holds them together — yet I digress. LOL.
Anyway, when asked by PEOPLE what got her and Norm to the 40-year mark, this is what Debbie had to say:
“So wherever there have been differences and there have been. Honey, over 40 years, child, we've hit some rocks and hit some walls. But at the end of the day, we really love each other and we sleep together every night and we love our family.”
Did you catch that? No matter what valleys and challenges made their way into their relationship, 1) there is a genuine love that Debbie and Norm share; 2) they sleep together every night, and 3) there is a real love that they have for their family.
What I read between the lines is one, their love isn’t just a feeling; it is a commitment and honestly, that is not taught enough in these premarital sessions out here. Listen, if you are only going to get married based on how someone makes you feel, you really do need to remain single. FEELINGS ARE FICKLE.
Two, they share a marriage bed (Hebrews 13:4) — each and every night. There is no “go sleep on the couch” (I really don’t get how folks get put out of their own bed; imagine if your partner tried to do that to you). Now, peep that she didn’t say that they always go to bed happy or pleased with one another; she said that they make sure that, at the end of the day, they always share that sacred space.
And finally, there is a love that they have for family. Family is a unit. A part of what marriage is about is two people doing their absolute best to keep the family unit together. Yeah, I know that’s antiquated thinking for a lot of folks, yet that’s why many older couples make it past 40 years, and many younger ones can’t even seem to get to five. #justsaying
As I reflected on what Debbie said, it got me to thinking about conversations that I’ve had with married couples who have at least three decades of “I do” under their belts, along with some of the things that I’ve recommended to husbands and wives who desire to reach that goal.
If you’re curious about what some of those things are, I’ve included five of ‘em below.
1. Prepare for Seasons. Ahead of Time.
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Although it’s October, and I’m currently waiting for it to be “fall for real” in Music City (geeze), I’ve been getting clothing for the fall and winter seasons since my birthday (which is June). Why? Because the prices tend to be cheaper. The moral to the story here: don’t wait for the seasons to come before you get ready for them — that literally can cost you. Dearly.
This applies to the weather and the seasons of life too. Y’all, when it comes to marriage, specifically, I’ve been known to say that women deserve to have a big and lavish party called a wedding because, contrary to the popular assumption of far too many, you are a BRIDE for a day; then you are a WIFE for a lifetime. Scripture says that a wife is a helpmate (Genesis 2:18).
Even beyond that, the Hebrew word for helpmate is ezer kenegdo, which means lifesaver. If that doesn’t sound like something that requires a lot of energy and effort, I don’t know what does. And here’s the thing — if you go into your union aware of the fact that it’s not going to be a party all of the time, that you indeed will hit some, as Debbie put it, “rocks and walls,” you won’t be so shocked when they happen.
You will already have some tips, tools, and hacks in your arsenal to get through those seasons (check out “10 Hacks To Get Your Marriage Back On Track” and “The Greatest Hack To Get A Marriage Through The Tough Times”). Because, just like you can’t stop winter from coming, at the end of the day, all you can do is get ready; maturity teaches you the same thing about the “winter season” of marriage. Real talk.
2. Give the Mercy and Grace That You Want to Receive
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There’s a Scripture in the Bible that says, “mercies are new every morning” (Lamentations 3:22-23). Interestingly enough, what follows that line is, “great is your faithfulness.” Although this is actually talking about how God loves us, let’s not act like Scripture also doesn’t say that husbands should “love their wives like Christ loves the Church” (Ephesians 5:24). Yeah, from a spiritual angle, marriage is supposed to be a supernatural kind of love.
It’s not supposed to be easy, common or simple. Supernatural things never are. And I can only imagine how many marriages would last if Christians (who divorce more than any other faith in this country, by the way) decided to be merciful and faithful to their partners…on a daily basis.
Yet even beyond that particular religion, imagine what marriage would look like, period, if couples saw being merciful, all of the time, as being an act of faithfulness. And what does it mean to be a merciful person? Merciful people are compassionate; they try to do what they can to reduce the suffering of others. Merciful people are tender; they are sympathetic and gentle (in word, deed, and tone).
Merciful people are forgiving; this one right here? I am floored by how many people want to be forgiven for their mistakes and yet can’t seem to muster up some for others. Yeah, if you’re not a good forgiver, marriage is not for you. Merciful people are tolerant; if you don’t know how to be patient and endure some things, this is also a reason to not jump anybody’s broom.
Merciful people like to be generous and bless others — again, selfish people should never get married. All they care about is what they can get out of something or someone. And then there’s grace.
An uncomplicated way to define grace would be it’s about extending favor to another person — oftentimes when they don’t deserve it (that is key). Favor is about kindness and giving someone preferential treatment (your spouse definitely deserves that). Favor doesn’t keep record or score. It doesn’t go tit-for-tat. It doesn’t “match energy.”
Favor likes peace. Favor likes unity. Favor seeks solutions instead of problems. A lot of marriages struggle because while a certain level of love is present, there isn’t much mercy or grace to speak of.
3. Don’t Manipulate Intimacy
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Whether you’re married or not, you should never use sex (or any form of intimacy, really) to get what you want from another person — and yet, it happens all of the time.
Unfortunately, I can’t tell you how many wives I have had sessions with who will withhold sex in order to get an outfit that is out of the monthly budget or to deflect from being held accountable for something that they did wrong. Sex is not to be a manipulation tool — it’s not something that you are to use to control your partner.
Sex is a physical way to express love to and for your spouse, connect with them in a very deep and profound way, and spend a very special form of quality time together (check out “10 Wonderful Reasons Why Consistent Sex In Marriage Is So Important”). If you attempt to use sex for any other reason, all that really ends up doing is cause a breakdown of trust between you and your spouse, which can lead to resentment, emotional distance, and, before long, possible acts of infidelity.
And just how often should married couples have sex? Studies say that once a week (or four times a month) is a good indication of a healthy sex life between long-term couples. And before some of you hem and haw like that is too much — if you can prioritize 2.5 hours a day on social media, you can find an hour to be intimate with your partner once a week (check out “Married Couples, Here's How To Make (More) Time For Sex”). Yeah, let’s not play those games.
When you got married, you signed up to have a consistent sex life with your spouse (as much as is physically possible). If you didn’t want to treat sex like a marital responsibility…you already know what I am going to say, right? Sex isn’t a hobby in marriage; it is foundational for its longevity.
4. Treat Therapy Like Oil Changes
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There is nothing like a gaslighting person. Ugh. Right now, yep in real time, I’ve got a friend who recently went through a divorce and another who is going through one of the most challenging times in her marriage ever. The one who is divorced has an ex-husband who constantly tries to guilt trip her about “breaking up the family” when I can personally attest to the fact that his refusal to go through personal therapy and also marital counseling is what brought her to her breaking point.
Just one request and he refused (and still refuses). Then my other friend’s husband’s pride is completely off the charts. Somehow, he is constantly recommending therapy to others while believing that he is not a huge part of the problem in his own home (hypocrite much?).
It's another article for another time about how we need to remain as hypervigilant as possible about removing the stigma surrounding life coaching, counseling, and therapy (including sex therapy — check out “Have You Ever Wondered If You Should See A Sex Therapist?”). Even beyond that, when it comes to marriage specifically, we need to move past the position that the relationship needs to be two seconds away from divorce before seeking out a professional.
What I tend to advise to married folks is they should look at marriage counseling like a car that needs an oil change — like a car on the road, marriage is also its own kind of journey, and counseling can help spouses to “take each other’s temperature,” unpack any problems (or potential problems) and gain some insight that can help them to avoid certain “bumps in the road.”
That’s why, even once consistent sessions with my clients are complete, I will recommend that they at least check in with me a couple of times a year, preferably once a season. Why? Because, when they say that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, greater words have never been spoken when it comes to the importance and relevance of marriage counseling. Trust and believe, chile.
5. As You Change, Express It
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I can’t tell you how many times I have said that, as far as relationships are concerned, one of my favorite quotes is, “People change and forget to tell each other.” When it comes to Denzel and Pauletta, Samuel and LaTanya, Norm and Debbie, I think what makes me honor them most is the fact that…well, think of how many times you’ve gone through some transitions and evolutions, shoot, just in the past three years alone.
For two people to remain committed to one another as they are growing, oftentimes at different times in a myriad of different areas, that deserves its own level of props.
And that actually circles back to what I meant about not basing your marriage on mere feelings. While so many people say that they divorced because “they outgrew their spouse,” isn’t it interesting how some of their close friendships remained intact? That’s because we oftentimes have more patience, compromise, and flexibility for our friends — and oftentimes, that is because we actually value them more than our own partners…and that is because many of us weren’t taught to esteem marriage like we actually should.
Okay, but back to my main point on this one. It’s a given that you’re going to not be the exact same person that you were on your wedding day. Know who else isn’t going to be? Your spouse. True commitment says that we don’t leave because we change; we change, and then we express it to our partner so that we can find some common ground to continue on that path that we said we would walk on…together.
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Best-selling author Dr. Barbara DeAngelis once said, “Marriage is not a noun. It’s a verb. It isn’t something you get. It’s something you do. It’s the way you love your partner every day.” As I close this out, look back at Debbie and Norm on that IG post. Take in the love, humor, and connection that is shared between them.
Rome wasn’t built in a day. A marriage of 40 years isn’t either.
Oh, but how beautiful the end result of both is to behold, right?
Salute.
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It's kinda wild that, in 2025, my byline will have appeared on this platform for (what?!) seven years. And yeah, when I'm not waxing poetic on here about sex, relationships and then...more sex and relationships, I am working as a certified marriage life coach, helping to birth babies (as a doula) or penning for other places (oftentimes under pen names).
As some of you know, something that I've been "threatening" to do for a few years now is write another book. Welp, October 2024 was the month that I "gave birth" to my third one: 'Inside of Me 2.0: My Story. With a 20-Year Lens'. It's fitting considering I hit a milestone during the same year.
Beyond that, Pumas and lip gloss are still my faves along with sweatshirts and tees that have a pro-Black message on them. I've also started really getting into big ass unique handbags and I'm always gonna have a signature scent that ain't nobody's business but my own.
As far as where to find me, I continue to be MIA on the social media front and I honestly don't know if that will ever change. Still, if you need to hit me up about something *that has nothing to do with pitching on the site (I'm gonna start ignoring those emails because...boundaries)*, hit me up at missnosipho@gmail.com. I'll do what I can. ;)
Claudia Jordan, Demetria McKinney & Jill Marie Jones On 'Games Women Play' & Dating Over 40
What do you get when you mix unfiltered truths, high-stakes romance, and a few well-timed one-liners? You get Games Women Play—the sizzling new stage play by Je’Caryous Johnson that’s part relationship rollercoaster, part grown-woman group chat.
With a powerhouse cast that includes Claudia Jordan, Demetria McKinney, Jill Marie Jones, Carl Payne, Chico Bean, and Brian J. White, the play dives headfirst into the messy, hilarious, and heart-wrenching games people play for love, power, and peace of mind. And the women leading this story? They’re bringing their whole selves to the stage—and leaving nothing behind.
From Script to Spotlight
The road to Games Women Play started over 20 years ago—literally.
“This script was written 20 years ago,” Jill Marie Jones said with a smile. “It was originally called Men, Money & Gold Diggers, and I was in the film version. So when Je’Caryous called me to bring it to the stage, I was like, ‘Let’s go.’” Now reimagined for 2025, the play is updated with sharp dialogue and modern relationship dynamics that feel all too real.
Demetria McKinney, no stranger to Je’Caryous Johnson’s productions, jumped at the opportunity to join the cast once again. “This is my third time working with him,” she shared. “It was an opportunity to stretch. I’d never been directed by Carl Payne before, and the chance to work with talent I admire—Jill, Claudia, Chico—it was a no-brainer.”
Claudia Jordan joked that she originally saw the role as just another check. “I didn’t take it that seriously at first,” she admitted. “But this is my first full-on tour—and now I’ve got a whole new respect for how hard people work in theater. This ain’t easy.”
Modern Love, Stage Left
The play doesn’t hold back when it comes to the messier parts of love. One jaw-dropping moment comes when a live podcast proposal flips into a prenup bombshell—leaving the audience (and the characters) gasping.
Demetria broke it down with honesty. “People don’t ask the real questions when they date. Like, ‘Do you want kids? How do you feel about money?’ These convos aren’t happening, and then everyone’s confused. That moment in the play—it’s real. That happens all the time.”
Jill chimed in, noting how the play speaks to emotional disconnect. “We’re giving each other different tokens of love. Men might offer security and money. Women, we’re giving our hearts. But there’s a disconnect—and that’s where things fall apart.”
And then Claudia, of course, took it all the way there. “These men don’t even want to sign our prenups now!” she laughed. “They want to live the soft life, too. Wearing units, gloss, getting their brows done. We can’t have nothing! Y’all want to be like us? Then get a damn period and go through menopause.”
Dating Over 40: “You Better Come Correct”
When the conversation turned to real-life relationships, all three women lit up. Their experiences dating in their 40s and 50s have given them both clarity—and zero tolerance for games.
“I feel sexier than I’ve ever felt,” said Jill, who proudly turned 50 in January. “I say what I want. I mean what I say. I’m inside my woman, and I’m not apologizing for it.”
Demetria added that dating now comes with deeper self-awareness. “Anybody in my life is there because I want them there. I’ve worked hard to need nobody. But I’m open to love—as long as you keep doing what got me there in the first place.”
For Claudia, the bar is high—and the peace is priceless. “I’ve worked hard for my peace,” she said. “I’m not dating for food. I’m dating because I want to spend time with you. And honestly, if being with you isn’t better than being alone with my candles and fountains and cats? Then no thanks.”
Channeling Strength & Icon Status
Each actress brings something different to the play—but all of them deliver.
“I actually wish I could be messier on stage,” Claudia joked. “But I think about my grandmother—she was born in 1929, couldn’t even vote or buy a house without a man, and didn’t give a damn. She was fearless. That’s where my strength comes from.”
For Jill, the comparisons to her iconic Girlfriends character Toni Childs aren’t far off—but this role gave her a chance to dig deeper. “If you really understood Toni, you’d see how layered she was. And Paisley is the same—misunderstood, but strong. There’s more to her than people see at first glance.”
Demetria, who juggles singing and acting seamlessly, shared that live theater pushes her in a new way. “Every moment on stage counts. You can’t redo anything. It’s a different kind of love and discipline. You have to give the performance away—live, in the moment—and trust that it lands.”
Laughter, Lessons & Black Girl Gems
The show has plenty of laugh-out-loud moments—and the cast isn’t shy about who steals scenes.
“Chico Bean gets a lot of gasps and laughs,” Claudia said. “And Naomi Booker? Every scene she’s in—she’s hilarious.”
But the play isn’t just about humor. It leaves space for reflection—especially for Black women.
“I hope we get back to the foundation of love and communication,” said Demetria. “A lot of us are in protector mode. But that’s turned into survival mode. We’ve lost softness. We’ve lost connection.”
Claudia agreed. “We’re doing it all—but it’s not because we want to be strong all the time. It’s because we have to be. And I just want women to know: You can have peace, you can be soft. But stop bringing your old pain into new love. Don’t let past heartbreak build walls so high that the right person can’t climb over.”
Final Act: Pack the House
If there’s one thing this cast agrees on, it’s that this play isn’t just entertainment—it’s necessary.
“Atlanta is the Black entertainment hub,” Claudia said. “We need y’all to show up for this play. Support the arts. Support each other. Because when we pack the house, we make space for more stories like this.”
Games Women Play is more than a play—it’s a mirror. You’ll see yourself, your friends, your exes, and maybe even your next chapter. So get ready to laugh, reflect, and maybe even heal—because the games are on.
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Patricia "Ms. Pat" Williams has always marched to the beat of her own brutally honest drum — and that’s exactly what makes her so magnetic to watch. Whether she’s making us laugh until we cry on The Ms. Pat Show or now laying down the law on her courtroom series Ms. Pat Settles It, the comedian-turned-judge proves time and again that there’s nobody quite like her. Unfiltered, hilarious, and real to the core, she’s made a name for herself by turning her life’s journey — including the pain — into purpose.
Now in her second season of Ms. Pat Settles It, airing on BET and BET+, she’s not only delivering verdicts — she’s dishing out life lessons in between the laughs. The show feels less like your typical courtroom drama and more like your outspoken auntie running a court session at the family cookout, complete with celebrity jurors, petty disputes, and a whole lot of real talk. xoNecole sat down with Ms. Pat to talk about her wildest cases, balancing motherhood and fame, and why sleeping in separate bedrooms might just be the key to joy.
CASE CLOSED, BUT MAKE IT CHAOS
If you’ve ever tuned in to Ms. Pat Settles It, you already know the episode titles alone deserve awards. But when we asked Ms. Pat which case stood out most, she didn’t even have to think twice. “There was this one woman — Shay — who got out of federal prison and was working for her old bunkmate. But the bunkmate didn’t want to pay her!” she says, chuckling. “That girl came in the courtroom like a firecracker.”
It’s moments like those that remind viewers Ms. Pat isn’t just bringing the laughs — she’s giving people a platform, even if it’s a little messy. And if her court ever gets turned into a real-life franchise, we need Shay on the promo posters immediately.
WHEN THE CELEBS SHOW OUT
It’s already hard enough to get a word in with Ms. Pat running the show, but throw in a celebrity jury featuring Tamar Braxton, Ray J, TS Madison, and Karlous Miller? Whew. “I don’t even try to control them,” she laughs. “Thank God we have something called editing.” According to her, behind the scenes, things get wild — but that chaos is part of the magic. “People only see the cut-down version. What you don’t see is all of us losing it in real time.”
Still, Ms. Pat makes it work. The courtroom becomes a stage, but also a safe space for guests and jurors to show up as their full, unfiltered selves. “It was a wild season,” she explains. Let’s be honest — if your jury looks like a BET Awards afterparty, you might as well let it rock.
IF FAMILY COURT WAS REALLY A THING
Ms. Pat might wear the robe on screen, but at home, she’s still managing her own wild bunch. When asked what kind of case her kids would bring into her courtroom, she burst into laughter. “Oh, they’d be suing my oldest son for eating their food,” she says. “You know how you have that one roommate that eats up everybody’s food? I can see my oldest son getting sued for that..”
And let’s face it, we’ve all either been that sibling or have one. Ms. Pat says moments like that — the everyday family squabbles and real-life irritations — are what make her courtroom show so relatable.
THE VERDICT SHE WISHES SHE COULD REWRITE
Ms. Pat is known for keeping it real, even when the conversation turns serious. When asked if there was one “verdict” in her real life she’d change, she pauses for a second before answering. “I wish I had graduated high school,” she admits. “All my kids went to prom and I took all of their high school diplomas.”
“I wish I had graduated high school,” she admits. “All my kids went to prom and I took all of their high school diplomas.”
It’s a rite of passage in most Black households — your diploma doesn’t really belong to you, it lives at your mama or grandma’s house like a family heirloom.
HOW SHE STAYS GROUNDED
Between filming TV shows, headlining comedy tours, and running a household, Ms. Pat makes it very clear: she will find time to rest. “People swear I don’t sleep, but I do — I just knock out early and wake up early,” she shares. “And sometimes, I’ll just sit in my car.” She’s also a big fan of solo naps and mini getaways when things get overwhelming.
But one of her favorite forms of self-care? Separate bedrooms. “Me and my husband don’t sleep in the same room. That way, when I don’t feel like being bothered, I go to my space,” she laughs. She’s also found a new love for facials. “They’re addicting! I don’t need a lot — just sleep, a facial, and a little quiet.” Honestly? That’s a self-care routine we can get behind.
FROM PAIN TO PURPOSE
Ms. Pat’s story is one that’s deeply rooted in resilience — and she’s always been transparent about how her journey shaped her. Her advice to other Black women trying to turn their pain into purpose? Speak up. “You have to tell your story,” she says. “Because once you tell your story, you realize you’re not the only person that’s been through that situation.”
She adds that sharing your truth can be one of the most powerful things you do. “When you give a voice to pain so many other people who have that pain gravitate to you,” she says. “To heal, you have to speak out loud about it. What you keep inside is what eats you up.” Coming from someone who built an entire brand on truth-telling? We believe her.
WHAT’S NEXT FOR MS. PAT?
While Ms. Pat’s got her hands full with Ms. Pat Settles It and her comedy show, she hints there’s much more to come. “I got some stuff poppin’ that I can’t even talk about yet,” she teases. “But just know, like Kendrick [Lamar] said, we about to step out and show ‘em something.” That multi-genre deal with BET and Paramount is clearly working in her favor — and she’s not slowing down anytime soon.
She says one of her proudest moments in this chapter of her career is seeing things she once dreamed of finally come to life. “In this business, you never know what’s gonna work or what’s gonna stick. But now I’m working with a network that really understands me — and that’s special,” she says. “I feel seen. And I’m just getting started.”
Whether she’s in the courtroom cracking jokes or catching up on rest in her own sanctuary, Ms. Pat is living proof that success doesn’t have to come at the cost of authenticity. She’s rewriting the rules in real time — on her terms, in her voice, and for her people. As she continues to turn pain into purpose, laughter into legacy, and everyday mess into must-see TV, one thing’s clear: Ms. Pat is in her prime. And we’re lucky enough to watch it unfold.
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