This music business is a fickle industry. It chews up and spits out even the best of them, and sifts out those who attempt to get into it for glitz and glamour, celebrity shoulder-rubbing and clout-inducing social posts.
But for those who truly love music, working with artists and the brands that back them, offers an opportunity to get paid for your passion. The late nights and early mornings eventually give way to real relationships and worldwide travel with the artists you love and the power players behind them, and what seems like a dream life often becomes a reality that conjures the phrase "find a job you enjoy doing, and you will never have to work a day in your life."
Courtesy of Joy Young
I first met Joy Young on a warm summer evening after a Women in Music panel in which she dropped major gems for up-and-coming artists and creatives climbing their way up the music industry ladder.
As a manager at Wondaland Management (home of Janelle Monáe and Jidenna) and CEO of Playtime Talent Group where she manages the day-to-day of R&B group Hamilton Park, Young boasts an impressive resume that's led her to speak on music panels both local and international, attend coveted entertainment events, and garner the respect that allows her to walk into rooms that others aspire to be in.
Starting as a Marketing Assistant for Trill Entertainment during her college years has evolved into over a decade-long career working for companies like Atlantic Records, BET Networks, Roc Nation, and many more.
Joy Young pictured with her artists, the men of Hamilton Park.Courtesy of Joy Young
But like all things worth having, her career didn't come without its share of setbacks that would ultimately set her up for success. There were many years plagued with frustration, financial instability, and fighting for what she believed in, even if it meant letting go of jobs and people that no longer served her. But in those very moments, God would remind her that the little girl from Baton Rouge, Louisiana who would rush home from band practice to watch AJ and Free on BET's 106 & Park could dream big and manifest the life that she desired.
In this interview, xoNecole chats with the music maven on the different phases of her life and the lessons she's learned from them— from getting your first clients and finding mentors to knowing your worth and winning in a male-dominated industry without losing your soul.
Get your notebooks out; school is in session.
Lesson 1: Start With Your Circle for Your First Clients
" Issa Rae said it best when she mentioned to network horizontally versus vertically. All of my initial clients have been very close friends of mine. The first client that I had was a friend of mine, a pastor actually who was starting a ministry. He wanted to branch out to Atlanta and do a conference here. And I was like, 'Well, why don't I help you?' So he hired me to coordinate his first conference in Atlanta.
"My second client was a very good friend of mine, DJ Poizon Ivy. When she started, she had a college show and after she graduated she started opening for different people like Wiz Khalifa. She's now the first female DJ for the Dallas Mavericks, she's gotten an Emmy, and she's just been featured on the Forbes list this year.
"So [the advice] I would give people is to not strive to shoot for the stars, but look around you and see who has talent and who has potential and offer your services."
Courtesy of Joy Young
"[The advice] I would give people is to not strive to shoot for the stars, but look around you and see who has talent and who has potential and offer your services."
Lesson 2: Protect Your Reputation
"There was a situation where the management of talent that I was working with tried to hit on me, and because I did not accept what he was offering, he tried to throw me under the bus. When I would try to make moves or make money or connect with different executives at the label that I was working for, he literally would put in phone calls like, 'I don't want her to work on this project,' and I'm just like, 'Why did you do this?' But at the same time, I never let it stop me. I had people fighting for me inside the building. It affected me in a sense where I had to fight harder or prove myself harder. Even certain relationships I never wanted to be public because I didn't want to be looked at a certain way. I made sure that my reputation was protected. I made sure I didn't wear certain clothes. I made sure that I wasn't presenting myself a certain way on the internet. I just made sure my shit was straight so nobody could have anything to say about me."
Lesson 3: Know Your Worth
"Women need to understand their worth and their value; they don't need to take disrespect. I once had an assignment where I had to pull receipts from years prior to my being [at the company], so I found as many receipts as I could, printed them out, and organized them in a cute little folder. When I handed [my GM] what I put together, I guess it wasn't in the way that she wanted it. She literally took it and she threw it across the room. So I looked at her, I looked at that folder, I picked up my shit and I walked out. After that, a few weeks go by and I get a phone call from that same person offering me a paid job and I turned it down. I was like, 'No because I see how you guys treat the people who work for you.' So when I declined the first offer, she came back to me with a second offer with a different position as a marketing assistant with more pay, and then I accepted it. The second time around, I was way more respected and I was way more valued."
Courtesy of Joy Young
"Women need to understand their worth and their value; they don't need to take disrespect."
Lesson 4: If It’s Not Serving You, Move On to Something Better
"Don't look at a client or any situation that you're in as it's the best that it can get and that you need to just take whatever because that's not the case. I've been in a situation where I dealt with a lot of shit for longer than I should have, thinking that it was the best that I could get at that time. At the end of the day, no matter who you're working with or who you're working for, what's for you is for you. So if you feel like a situation doesn't serve you, then you can leave because no matter what you're still going to get what you deserve."
Lesson 5: Invest In Yourself & In Others
"You need to invest in yourself. If you're getting a $2,000 retainer, take a percentage of that and invest it back in your company. Don't be scared to invest your money thinking you're not going to see your return because you will. That's the only way you're going to grow as a business owner and as a company, you have to invest in yourself and into your dream because if you don't do it, no one else will. Also, be open to giving. From a spiritual perspective, the whole purpose of God blessing you is to bless other people. So whether it's giving $5 to somebody on the street, that's the seed that you're sowing to come back to you. If you see a friend selling whatever product they're selling, support their business, support their dream because that's also a seed that's going to come back to you."
Courtesy of Joy Young
"Be open to giving. From a spiritual perspective, the whole purpose of God blessing you is to bless other people. So whether it's giving $5 to somebody on the street, that's the seed that you're sowing to come back to you. If you see a friend selling whatever product they're selling, support their business, support their dream because that's also a seed that's going to come back to you."
Lesson 6: Build Relationships by Caring About People
"The key to cultivating relationships is treating someone like they're human, treat them like they are your friends. People have to remember that you have feelings and you're a person, you're going through shit. So consider that when you approach people, consider that when you're engaging in conversation with people. Instead of the first thing that comes out of your mouth is asking for something, ask me how my day is going to get a gauge on if I can even have this conversation with you right now. Text me like, 'Hey, I hope your day is going well,' or just make me feel that you actually think about me. People are there with their hands out and don't really care about what you have going on. So my biggest thing on building relationships is you have to be considerate about that and cultivate relationships. Try to get to know me a little bit before you just jump in with the ask."
Lesson 7: Offer Your Help Before Asking for Handouts
"Be open to having different kinds of mentorships, whether it's through literature, one-off conversations or even organically having a day-to-day mentorship. There are some mentors that I consider myself having that I've never met, but I read their books. There are also mentors who I may have had one or two exchanges with in the past or professionally who I just followed their careers and take notes based on how they operate, how they move, things they've accomplished or even nuggets that I have just been having short conversations with them. Then there are the mentors who I actually get to have access to on a consistent basis. I started off asking them how can I help them? I think that's the key. If you really want to be able to get access to someone, offer your help because we all need something, especially people at this level. We need help with a lot of shit, and if you can fill the void and serve then that's the best way to get access to somebody."
Courtesy of Joy Young
"Being a manager is a selfless job. You have to be a mother figure, sister, aunt, a counselor, a therapist, a cook, and a personal assistant. And there are different levels too because each client is different."
Lesson 8: Create Boundaries for Balance & Peace of Mind
"Being a manager is a selfless job. You have to be a mother figure, sister, aunt, a counselor, a therapist, a cook, and a personal assistant. And there are different levels too because each client is different. Some clients might not need all that, but then there are some clients who are a little bit more sensitive and need a little more attention. If you're not super intentional about your self-care regimen, then sometimes you get lost in that. You have to set boundaries like I can't be available for phone calls after this certain time if it's not an emergency, or I need Saturday and Sunday to myself. Or hey, I'm going on vacation and I'm cutting my phone off. Do not call me. Make sure you provide them what they need before you leave, but you have to set those boundaries to be able to have that balance."
For more of Joy, follow her on Instagram.
Featured image courtesy of Joy Young
Originally published on January 20, 2020
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That’s not to say that there aren’t times when I find myself hella triggered while watching the program, though. I say that because I literally can’t believe some of the issues that continue to exist (BIG ONES) after someone has proposed and their partner has accepted. Financial drama. Family drama. Distrust. Toxic levels of communication. Sometimes stuff that makes you wonder how and why a couple are friends let alone engaged to one another. SMDH.
Yeah, as I recently said in a podcast interview not too long ago, I really wish that marriage therapists, counselors, and life coaches would normalize recommending premarital counseling to people before anyone puts a ring on someone else’s finger. I say that because, as someone who wholeheartedly believes that there would be a lot less divorces if premarital counseling was so much more thorough than it tends to be, I also think that if two people really pondered if they should even get engaged to begin with…there would be more solid marriages between individuals who are good fits for one another instead of fleeting weddings between two people who really had no idea how deep marriage is.
And so, as unconventional as it may be, today I’m going to make my case for why, anyone who is considering marriage up the pike, should get into premarital counseling BEFORE a ring is bought, anyone gets on one knee and definitely prior to a wedding date being set.
Premarital Counseling Should Not Be Treated Like a Mere Formality
GiphySomeone in my world right now is engaged — and I’m not thrilled about it. They are super young, hella broke and there is a lot of drama going on between both sides of their families. When I spoke to the bride-to-be about the importance of getting some premarital counseling, I thought that I was going to throw the phone across the room when she shared with me that they were going to go for “a couple of sessions.” Chile, with all that she shared with me, they need to be in counseling for at least six months (more on that in just a sec) and yet, she said that the pastor that she was speaking with thought that 2-3 meetings would suffice.
Umm…in what world? You can’t even get to the root of why there is so much contention with the family members in a couple of sessions and they have a whole lot more red flags waving than that. And yet, sadly, we’ve gotten so used to premarital counseling being seen and treated as nothing more than a mere formality that it’s not really taken seriously — and that can prevent engaged couples from taking what they are about to get into as seriously as they should as well.
And don’t get me started on how true this is once you’ve already got a ring on your finger because there’s a really big chance that you are going to move forward with your wedding whether counseling goes well or not — if for no other reason than your pride doesn’t want people to know that you called your engagement off (check out “These 12 Women Broke Off Their Engagements. Here's Why.”).
And that is reason #1 why I think that premarital counseling needs to happen before an engagement — because 1) you can take your time because there is no wedding to plan for yet and 2) you don’t have to worry about what you should do about your engagement if you realize you shouldn’t be together…you’re not engaged yet. Moving on.
Premarital Counseling Should Be More than a Couple of Sessions
GiphyClients of mine who have plans to get married can vouch for the fact that if you’re going to work with me, don’t book a first session if you want to get married within a couple of months. Shoot, I tend to spend 5-6 sessions on intimacy alone because it’s important to discuss things like what you were taught about sex, how your first time impacted you, if you are a virgin what inspired the decision, what your expectations of sex are, how religion has influenced your views of sex, how you prioritize sex in a marriage, what you think the purpose of sex actually is — and that’s actually just the tip of the iceberg!
And since there is so much more that comes with being married than just having a healthy sexual dynamic (although that is easily in the top five if you understand the purpose of sex in a marital union), how can three 30-minute sessions even begin to scratch the surface?
Have mercy, y’all, with the divorce rate still hovering somewhere around 50 percent, statistics revealing that couples who engage in premarital counseling are typically able to reduce their chances of ending their future marriage by a little over 30 percent, it’s almost tragic that reportedly only 36 percent of couples go premarital counseling, to begin with.
And if you want to go the distance of what most people vow (which is a promise) during their wedding ceremony of being together until death parts you — how in the world can you prepare for that without getting as deep and detailed as possible about things like: your childhoods; your communication styles; your values; your future plans and goals; your emotional needs; your sexual desires; your vices; your strengths and weaknesses; your expectations; how you handle money; your (potential) deal-breakers; your parenting styles; the baggage that you carry from past relationships; your boundaries with family members and friends; how you plan on dealing with holidays and special days; how you handle disagreements; if your home is going to be traditional or not; if your home is going to have Scriptural standards or not; who is going to clean what; who is going to handle what — need I go on to prove that a couple of sessions simply ain’t gonna cut it? I doubt it.
Premarital Counseling Before Engagement Takes the Pressure Off…to Get Married
GiphySemi-recently, while at a funeral, I ran into a guy who I hadn’t seen in, shoot, at least 15 years. As we were walking to our cars and catching up on our lives, I said, “I have always meant to tell you that you and your ex-fiancé have always been heroes of mine.” They’ve been broken up even longer than the last time I saw him and so, understandably, it took him a minute for him to even get where I was coming from. “Oh, [insert her name here]? Why do you say that?”
My reason is because they actually attended a church in Nashville that does what I believe: that you should participate in premarital counseling before getting engaged. Anyway, although he and his girlfriend actually “passed” the counseling process, they ended up breaking up anyway. I remember, even back then, him saying that after they really considered all that comes with making a marriage work, they came to the conclusion that they weren’t each other’s best complement (check out “If He's Right For You, He Will COMPLEMENT Your Life”). GOOD FOR THEM.
Yep, another reason why I’m a huge fan of premarital counseling happening before getting engaged is because I think that most people will listen better to what is being said to them if they took this approach. They will really stop to consider if they should even go from dating (or boyfriend and girlfriend) to getting engaged — because (and it can’t be said enough) I need everyone to remember that by the time you are someone’s fiancée, all that means is you two are in a season of preparing for your wedding day. Engagement is not about seeing if you need to get married or not. IF YOU DON’T KNOW THAT, YOU DON’T NEED TO BE ENGAGED (YET). AND YES, I AM YELLING THAT.
And if you’re in premarital counseling, not engaged and you see that you would be better off not becoming spouses, then there is no pressure to get married. Because you are not fiancé and fiancée. You are seeing if that should even happen…and it tends to be a lot less stressful to admit that it shouldn’t when you’re not at the point of being officially engaged…yet.
Premarital Counseling Can Save a Lot of Money (in the Long Run)
GiphyI have this theory that easily 80 percent of the married couples who ended up getting a divorce, a part of them wanted to call off the wedding the night before. Why didn’t they do it? For the same reasons why some of the members of my own family didn’t (and honestly should’ve and ultimately ended up divorcing anyway): venues were already paid for; dresses were already purchased; deposits were already put down; plane tickets were already bought, family members already have non-refundable investments — in folks’ minds, it’s simply too late to not go through with it.
Listen, if you think that being in a miserable marriage or getting divorced is easier than calling off a wedding, I don’t know who told you that lie. Besides, even if it is a little embarrassing, it actually takes a lot of courage to declare that you respect the covenant and contract of marriage too much to go through it just because you want to avoid feeling uncomfortable for a little while or you don’t want to lose money that you’ve already spent.
And yet — imagine how much this all would totally be a non-issue if you never spent any money in the first place (engagement ring included) because premarital counseling prior to getting engaged revealed to you that there is no need to plan a wedding because either you’re not with the right person or it’s not the right time? The investment in counseling prior to getting married may cost you a grand or so (give or take) and yet it’s still gonna be cheaper than paying for a wedding — one that very possibly shouldn’t be happening in the first place. And that will preach.
Premarital Counseling Should Focus on Different Things than Engagement Counseling
GiphyUnpopular (or at least uncommon) opinion: premarital counseling and engagement counseling should be separate. While premarital counseling should be all about figuring out if the person you’re thinking about marrying someday is an ideal fit for you, engagement counseling should be about providing tips and tools to make your wedding planning and newlywed years a smoother transition. Because, although we live in a culture that thinks a lot like my 13-year-old goddaughter does (that there isn’t much of a difference between a boyfriend, fiancé, and husband), people who are dating are not nearly as serious as people who are engaged and people who are engaged are not nearly as serious as people who are married.
Each season of a relationship comes with its own weight of responsibilities and while being in a long-term relationship, you should explore if you and your partner should shift into considering marriage, once you have declared that you are suitable for one another (which is what engagement is about), it’s well past time to be out here trying to figure out if you should get married…now it’s time to figure out how to do it. BIG DIFFERENCE.
So yes, I think it would be a total game-changer, indeed, for more therapists, counselors, and life coaches to encourage premarital counseling (should we get married?) to people who are (seriously) dating and engagement counseling (we need tips for preparing for our wedding and transitioning into becoming newlyweds) to those who are actually engaged.
If steps were taken in this fashion, I definitely think there would be fewer daters wasting each other’s time, more engaged people focusing on what the engagement season is truly all about — and both would take the importance of marriage counseling more seriously and literally as well. Because something else that research reveals is that 90 percent of married couples who attend 90-minute sessions, once a week, for 10 weeks, report that it ended up improving their emotional well-being and 75 percent said that the sessions made them feel more satisfied with their relationship overall.
Counseling does that. Counseling does that.
Just sayin’.
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