

There is a quote by Santosh Kalwar that states, "Love has no culture, boundaries, race, and religion. It is pure and beautiful like early-morning sunrise falling in lake." While this might be true, the year 2020 has made us more aware of the different experiences we face in this country based on the color of our skin. With this year's cultural climate shift, I was curious to learn more about the experience of being in an interracial relationship during this time. While I believe every relationship is different and has its own nuances, what does it look like when race has played a part in the relationship, if at any point at all? I was able to speak to two couples who offered some perspective on how they navigate everything together.
Courtney & Jackson
Courtesy of Courtney & Jackson
Courtney: We had been friends for 10 years and have been a couple for five. We basically met through mutual friends. Before I met Jackson, I've mostly dated within my race or been with men of color. With Jackson, for the more serious relationships, he has dated women of color before he met me. As far as race being an important part in our relationship, it is not something we center our relationship around. We talk about race a lot, and learning about Jackson's childhood was different than what I had expected. Hearing that he grew up in the inner city and he was around people that looked like me kind of checked me a little to not be as narrow-minded.
Jackson: I do feel that I have a different perspective than the average person from the South. I spent a lot of time in neighborhoods where I was the only white person. So I was exposed early on to the mistreatment that happens in communities and by law enforcement. Even in those moments, I knew I was treated differently than the people I was hanging out with.
Have you ever felt that you are treated differently by family and friends because you are in an interracial relationship?
Jackson: My parents were gracious when they didn't understand why I would bring black women home. So they have been working on things before they met Courtney. But with the recent Black Lives Matter movement, there have been great conversations.
Courtney: With Jack's parents, they grew up traditionally Republican. They also have a son (Jack) who dates black women and is a criminal defense attorney, so they get tidbits on how unfair the justice system is. With George Floyd, they were made aware of so many things at once. They have had some really in-depth and hard conversations with us as a couple, saying, "'We weren't fully where we are now and we want to talk about. We are a little upset we weren't there before, but we are here now and we want to ask and learn more.'" I think that's been one of the beauties of us being together in these times.
What is a misconception that you often face as an interracial couple?
Jackson: One misconception is that people don't understand that you are still handling things as a unit. People think that because we are in an interracial relationship, we [either] have things figured out, or the opposite, [with] people thinking that everything is screwed up in the relationship because of the crazy times. Neither one is true.
Courtney: For me being a black woman, I get put in this stereotype of white-washing my culture and intentionally trying to be with a white person instead of me being with the person I love. It's a little bit harder because if you speak to him and talk to him, you can understand why I'm with him. But on the surface it might not look that way, especially during the pandemic.
"As far as race being an important part in our relationship, it is not something we center our relationship around. We talk about race a lot, and learning about Jackson's childhood was different than what I had expected. Hearing that he grew up in the inner city and he was around people that looked like me kind of checked me a little to not be as narrow-minded."
Are there any things you had to unlearn about race in order to gain an understanding of each other?
Jackson: One thing that I will say in general—something that she repeats—'All skin folk aren't kinfolk.' Everybody that you expect to be on your side, whether they are related to you or because they look like you, is not always going to be on your side.
Courtney: That is something I am actively practicing, too, not just for people who look like me, but for people I have known my whole life. I am just trying to learn more about people because not everyone wants to learn more, and even though they look like you, you can't make them do anything they don't want to.
Ashley & Chea
Chea: We met for the first time at the Jay-Z and R. Kelly 'Best of Both Worlds' concert. I had recently gotten out of a relationship, and she was in a relationship at the time. She actually grew up with one of our mutual friends, Jero, who I ended up working with, and we would intentionally continue to cross paths and got introduced to each other.
Ashley: We were friends for four years before we started any commitment. We had a really deep friendship, so we both trusted each other. To be candid, at the time, we were just having fun. I wasn't thinking about being with him forever. So I didn't take his race into consideration. When I became pregnant, that is when race started to become a topic to discuss more.
Chea dated any woman he was attracted to regardless of race before we got together, where I specifically dated black men. I grew up in a pro-black community. So for me, when I visualized my life, I thought I was going to have dark brown babies like myself, marry a dark-skinned man, listen to Talib Kweli, and burn incense. It was intentional, but it wasn't exclusionary.
How do you educate one another (and yourselves) on your racial or cultural differences?
Chea: When we started our relationship, we really educated each other around the black culture and practicing [Islam]. She learned about my father's side and Buddhism. If we knew there was something that was important to us, we would share that with each other. I think what I have been mainly focusing on the last five years years is bridging the gap between what I've learned versus what I know from how I grew up.
I grew up in a majority-white neighborhood. So, 2020 has been an eye-opener where I'm not doing something correctly or no matter what I say, it's not making a substantial change. Whereas with Ashley, she's not at the point to sit down and educate people on how it is to be a black woman in America. She has been doing this her whole life, so she stands for educating yourself.
Have you ever felt you were being treated differently by family and friends because you were in an interracial relationship?
Chea: My mother is Caucasian and my father is Cambodian. It's layered, but on the surface, my mother's side was more accepting. We would go to family gatherings and there wouldn't be any issues really. On my father's side, the Asian side, the biggest pushback came from my stepmother. Both of my parents remarried, but with my father's side, there was confusion on how our relationship was coming together. You know, when people don't have an actual issue with something until it actually affects them? I think that's something you can apply to a lot of different things. Everything is great until it impacts you. Now five years into our marriage and 10 years into our relationship, I feel we are at a place where things are copacetic, but there are still those things that need to be worked through.
"I grew up in a pro-black community. So for me, when I visualized my life, I thought I was going to have dark brown babies like myself, marry a dark-skinned man, listen to Talib Kweli, and burn incense. It was intentional, but it wasn't exclusionary."
Were there things you had to teach your partner about being black in America that they may not have understood before?
Ashley: That's the thing about being in an interracial relationship. Chea doesn't experience the world the way I do. Even when I am getting profiled in a store, he is still existing in his own bubble. I sometimes would have to point it out to him and make him walk into a store and see who speaks to him. Now, watch when I walk in. I think these are things that white people miss everyday. When you are not existing in these spaces, you have the ability to look at things from an objective point of view, whereas we don't.
Chea: It's a very true experience and it's dependent on where we are, whether it's online or in-person.
"When you are not existing in these spaces, you have the ability to look at things from an objective point of view, whereas we don't."
Are there any things you had to unlearn about race in order to gain an understanding of each other?
Ashley: The growth for me came from within our marriage. I stopped looking at his Asian family as racist and started diving deeper into understanding where they are coming from having immigrated to this country. I don't think his family was being intentionally racist to me, they were just ignorant. But as soon as they got to know me, most of them changed immediately.
Chea: The thing that I had to unlearn is that every scenario doesn't always have the same outcome. For example, the police brutality, I think the common discourse for people who are not black is that, 'What did so and so do to get to this point?' That was my common way of thinking. Whether it was good or bad, something must have happened. I learned to let go of that and empathize more, regardless of what happened before.
Race aside, what is one thing that you truly enjoy about your partner?
Courtney: Jack is widely empathetic. He is able to relate to a lot of people on different journeys because he listens and can be present with them.
Jackson: There's a ton, but if I have to pick just one, it would be her creative spirit. I admire that about her and hope that her creative spirit sparks some creativity in me.
Ashley: Chea always felt like home to me, even before we were serious—when we were just friends. He is honestly one of my favorite people in the world. He is very loving and is a good person to everybody, not only to me which is important to me. If I had to choose one thing it would be his heart. Because that's where all of his good qualities stem from.
Chea: I feel like throughout various stages of our relationship I have loved her, and I just keep finding my love for her growing bigger. I can't really explain it. As I am trying to become a better person, she has been forcing me and helping me because she can see things I don't see. So I love her for that reason as well.
The two important things to know about relationships, whether you and your bae are of the same race or different races, are to be understanding of one another and to make your own rules. When you are intentional about knowing your partner's likes and dislikes, how you complement one another, and being empathetic to each other's experiences, race does not have to be a huge factor.
There will always be different obstacles that can make things challenging, but once you know who your partner is as a human being, you are able to create your own blueprint in order to make it through together. You should not go by other people's opinions or what others expect your relationship to be and with whom. At the end of the day, it is about what makes both of the people happy. Everyone is different and in the words of Chea, "Your results may vary."
Featured Image by Shutterstock
'K' is a multi-hyphenated free spirit from Chicago. She is a lover of stories and the people who tell them. As a writer, 9-5er, and Safe Space Curator, she values creating the life she wants and enjoying the journey along the way. You can follow her on Instagram @theletter__k_.
Claudia Jordan, Demetria McKinney & Jill Marie Jones On 'Games Women Play' & Dating Over 40
What do you get when you mix unfiltered truths, high-stakes romance, and a few well-timed one-liners? You get Games Women Play—the sizzling new stage play by Je’Caryous Johnson that’s part relationship rollercoaster, part grown-woman group chat.
With a powerhouse cast that includes Claudia Jordan, Demetria McKinney, Jill Marie Jones, Carl Payne, Chico Bean, and Brian J. White, the play dives headfirst into the messy, hilarious, and heart-wrenching games people play for love, power, and peace of mind. And the women leading this story? They’re bringing their whole selves to the stage—and leaving nothing behind.
From Script to Spotlight
The road to Games Women Play started over 20 years ago—literally.
“This script was written 20 years ago,” Jill Marie Jones said with a smile. “It was originally called Men, Money & Gold Diggers, and I was in the film version. So when Je’Caryous called me to bring it to the stage, I was like, ‘Let’s go.’” Now reimagined for 2025, the play is updated with sharp dialogue and modern relationship dynamics that feel all too real.
Demetria McKinney, no stranger to Je’Caryous Johnson’s productions, jumped at the opportunity to join the cast once again. “This is my third time working with him,” she shared. “It was an opportunity to stretch. I’d never been directed by Carl Payne before, and the chance to work with talent I admire—Jill, Claudia, Chico—it was a no-brainer.”
Claudia Jordan joked that she originally saw the role as just another check. “I didn’t take it that seriously at first,” she admitted. “But this is my first full-on tour—and now I’ve got a whole new respect for how hard people work in theater. This ain’t easy.”
Modern Love, Stage Left
The play doesn’t hold back when it comes to the messier parts of love. One jaw-dropping moment comes when a live podcast proposal flips into a prenup bombshell—leaving the audience (and the characters) gasping.
Demetria broke it down with honesty. “People don’t ask the real questions when they date. Like, ‘Do you want kids? How do you feel about money?’ These convos aren’t happening, and then everyone’s confused. That moment in the play—it’s real. That happens all the time.”
Jill chimed in, noting how the play speaks to emotional disconnect. “We’re giving each other different tokens of love. Men might offer security and money. Women, we’re giving our hearts. But there’s a disconnect—and that’s where things fall apart.”
And then Claudia, of course, took it all the way there. “These men don’t even want to sign our prenups now!” she laughed. “They want to live the soft life, too. Wearing units, gloss, getting their brows done. We can’t have nothing! Y’all want to be like us? Then get a damn period and go through menopause.”
Dating Over 40: “You Better Come Correct”
When the conversation turned to real-life relationships, all three women lit up. Their experiences dating in their 40s and 50s have given them both clarity—and zero tolerance for games.
“I feel sexier than I’ve ever felt,” said Jill, who proudly turned 50 in January. “I say what I want. I mean what I say. I’m inside my woman, and I’m not apologizing for it.”
Demetria added that dating now comes with deeper self-awareness. “Anybody in my life is there because I want them there. I’ve worked hard to need nobody. But I’m open to love—as long as you keep doing what got me there in the first place.”
For Claudia, the bar is high—and the peace is priceless. “I’ve worked hard for my peace,” she said. “I’m not dating for food. I’m dating because I want to spend time with you. And honestly, if being with you isn’t better than being alone with my candles and fountains and cats? Then no thanks.”
Channeling Strength & Icon Status
Each actress brings something different to the play—but all of them deliver.
“I actually wish I could be messier on stage,” Claudia joked. “But I think about my grandmother—she was born in 1929, couldn’t even vote or buy a house without a man, and didn’t give a damn. She was fearless. That’s where my strength comes from.”
For Jill, the comparisons to her iconic Girlfriends character Toni Childs aren’t far off—but this role gave her a chance to dig deeper. “If you really understood Toni, you’d see how layered she was. And Paisley is the same—misunderstood, but strong. There’s more to her than people see at first glance.”
Demetria, who juggles singing and acting seamlessly, shared that live theater pushes her in a new way. “Every moment on stage counts. You can’t redo anything. It’s a different kind of love and discipline. You have to give the performance away—live, in the moment—and trust that it lands.”
Laughter, Lessons & Black Girl Gems
The show has plenty of laugh-out-loud moments—and the cast isn’t shy about who steals scenes.
“Chico Bean gets a lot of gasps and laughs,” Claudia said. “And Naomi Booker? Every scene she’s in—she’s hilarious.”
But the play isn’t just about humor. It leaves space for reflection—especially for Black women.
“I hope we get back to the foundation of love and communication,” said Demetria. “A lot of us are in protector mode. But that’s turned into survival mode. We’ve lost softness. We’ve lost connection.”
Claudia agreed. “We’re doing it all—but it’s not because we want to be strong all the time. It’s because we have to be. And I just want women to know: You can have peace, you can be soft. But stop bringing your old pain into new love. Don’t let past heartbreak build walls so high that the right person can’t climb over.”
Final Act: Pack the House
If there’s one thing this cast agrees on, it’s that this play isn’t just entertainment—it’s necessary.
“Atlanta is the Black entertainment hub,” Claudia said. “We need y’all to show up for this play. Support the arts. Support each other. Because when we pack the house, we make space for more stories like this.”
Games Women Play is more than a play—it’s a mirror. You’ll see yourself, your friends, your exes, and maybe even your next chapter. So get ready to laugh, reflect, and maybe even heal—because the games are on.
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Patricia "Ms. Pat" Williams has always marched to the beat of her own brutally honest drum — and that’s exactly what makes her so magnetic to watch. Whether she’s making us laugh until we cry on The Ms. Pat Show or now laying down the law on her courtroom series Ms. Pat Settles It, the comedian-turned-judge proves time and again that there’s nobody quite like her. Unfiltered, hilarious, and real to the core, she’s made a name for herself by turning her life’s journey — including the pain — into purpose.
Now in her second season of Ms. Pat Settles It, airing on BET and BET+, she’s not only delivering verdicts — she’s dishing out life lessons in between the laughs. The show feels less like your typical courtroom drama and more like your outspoken auntie running a court session at the family cookout, complete with celebrity jurors, petty disputes, and a whole lot of real talk. xoNecole sat down with Ms. Pat to talk about her wildest cases, balancing motherhood and fame, and why sleeping in separate bedrooms might just be the key to joy.
CASE CLOSED, BUT MAKE IT CHAOS
If you’ve ever tuned in to Ms. Pat Settles It, you already know the episode titles alone deserve awards. But when we asked Ms. Pat which case stood out most, she didn’t even have to think twice. “There was this one woman — Shay — who got out of federal prison and was working for her old bunkmate. But the bunkmate didn’t want to pay her!” she says, chuckling. “That girl came in the courtroom like a firecracker.”
It’s moments like those that remind viewers Ms. Pat isn’t just bringing the laughs — she’s giving people a platform, even if it’s a little messy. And if her court ever gets turned into a real-life franchise, we need Shay on the promo posters immediately.
WHEN THE CELEBS SHOW OUT
It’s already hard enough to get a word in with Ms. Pat running the show, but throw in a celebrity jury featuring Tamar Braxton, Ray J, TS Madison, and Karlous Miller? Whew. “I don’t even try to control them,” she laughs. “Thank God we have something called editing.” According to her, behind the scenes, things get wild — but that chaos is part of the magic. “People only see the cut-down version. What you don’t see is all of us losing it in real time.”
Still, Ms. Pat makes it work. The courtroom becomes a stage, but also a safe space for guests and jurors to show up as their full, unfiltered selves. “It was a wild season,” she explains. Let’s be honest — if your jury looks like a BET Awards afterparty, you might as well let it rock.
IF FAMILY COURT WAS REALLY A THING
Ms. Pat might wear the robe on screen, but at home, she’s still managing her own wild bunch. When asked what kind of case her kids would bring into her courtroom, she burst into laughter. “Oh, they’d be suing my oldest son for eating their food,” she says. “You know how you have that one roommate that eats up everybody’s food? I can see my oldest son getting sued for that..”
And let’s face it, we’ve all either been that sibling or have one. Ms. Pat says moments like that — the everyday family squabbles and real-life irritations — are what make her courtroom show so relatable.
THE VERDICT SHE WISHES SHE COULD REWRITE
Ms. Pat is known for keeping it real, even when the conversation turns serious. When asked if there was one “verdict” in her real life she’d change, she pauses for a second before answering. “I wish I had graduated high school,” she admits. “All my kids went to prom and I took all of their high school diplomas.”
“I wish I had graduated high school,” she admits. “All my kids went to prom and I took all of their high school diplomas.”
It’s a rite of passage in most Black households — your diploma doesn’t really belong to you, it lives at your mama or grandma’s house like a family heirloom.
HOW SHE STAYS GROUNDED
Between filming TV shows, headlining comedy tours, and running a household, Ms. Pat makes it very clear: she will find time to rest. “People swear I don’t sleep, but I do — I just knock out early and wake up early,” she shares. “And sometimes, I’ll just sit in my car.” She’s also a big fan of solo naps and mini getaways when things get overwhelming.
But one of her favorite forms of self-care? Separate bedrooms. “Me and my husband don’t sleep in the same room. That way, when I don’t feel like being bothered, I go to my space,” she laughs. She’s also found a new love for facials. “They’re addicting! I don’t need a lot — just sleep, a facial, and a little quiet.” Honestly? That’s a self-care routine we can get behind.
FROM PAIN TO PURPOSE
Ms. Pat’s story is one that’s deeply rooted in resilience — and she’s always been transparent about how her journey shaped her. Her advice to other Black women trying to turn their pain into purpose? Speak up. “You have to tell your story,” she says. “Because once you tell your story, you realize you’re not the only person that’s been through that situation.”
She adds that sharing your truth can be one of the most powerful things you do. “When you give a voice to pain so many other people who have that pain gravitate to you,” she says. “To heal, you have to speak out loud about it. What you keep inside is what eats you up.” Coming from someone who built an entire brand on truth-telling? We believe her.
WHAT’S NEXT FOR MS. PAT?
While Ms. Pat’s got her hands full with Ms. Pat Settles It and her comedy show, she hints there’s much more to come. “I got some stuff poppin’ that I can’t even talk about yet,” she teases. “But just know, like Kendrick [Lamar] said, we about to step out and show ‘em something.” That multi-genre deal with BET and Paramount is clearly working in her favor — and she’s not slowing down anytime soon.
She says one of her proudest moments in this chapter of her career is seeing things she once dreamed of finally come to life. “In this business, you never know what’s gonna work or what’s gonna stick. But now I’m working with a network that really understands me — and that’s special,” she says. “I feel seen. And I’m just getting started.”
Whether she’s in the courtroom cracking jokes or catching up on rest in her own sanctuary, Ms. Pat is living proof that success doesn’t have to come at the cost of authenticity. She’s rewriting the rules in real time — on her terms, in her voice, and for her people. As she continues to turn pain into purpose, laughter into legacy, and everyday mess into must-see TV, one thing’s clear: Ms. Pat is in her prime. And we’re lucky enough to watch it unfold.
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Feature image by Earl Gibson III/Shutterstock