Jazmine Sullivan & Issa Rae Link Up For An Epic Conversation On Flexing Their Grown Woman Ish
Jazmine Sullivan is music royalty. She's rightfully deemed as one of the best voices to ever hit a studio, and she's also the queen of relatable music, a page out of Mary J. Blige's book. In fact, also similar to Mary, she makes some of the best music when she's her mental health is out of alignment. Ain't that a bitch?
At the top of this year, Sullivan released her highly, highly anticipated EP, Heaux Tales, and even put into the universe a potential collaboration with fellow GOAT, Issa Rae. "What I would love is if me and @IssaRae did a heauxtales short film, and I'd add a few extra songs. But I could just be dreaming. Nvm me. I'm crazy." Issa soon after answered, with five simple words: "Jazmine. Say the f–k less."
Jazmine. Say the fuck less. https://t.co/HRUwr6ZiJK
— Issa Rae (@IssaRae) January 9, 2021
The rest, is Black women's history, as they sneaky linked up for an interview with ESSENCE, hopefully with more to come.
And listen, during this interview, they discussed it all. From being fans of the other, to learning to say 'no more' to the childish things (for now), as our good sis Jazmine says she is now all about therapy, new music, and creating spaces for Black women.
Continue reading for highlights of the cover story below!
On having a master plan...or not:
When Issa asked the crooner how her album Fearless came about, sis responded gracefully:
"I wish I could say I had a master plan, but I really didn't. I was just doing what felt natural, and luckily I had gotten with a record company and with people who allowed me to do that. But for me, I just wanted to express myself in the most natural way, and that means me writing my stories. So many of the songs at that time came from a lot of the childish stuff I was going through.
"For example, busting windows out of an ex's car and literally going straight from doing it to not being able to sleep. I was restless, because I was still in the moment. And so I just started writing about it. I let my girlfriends hear it, and they were like, 'Girl, do your thing—whatever this leads to.' And it led to my world opening up in such a different way…"
On telling Black women's stories:
"Before now, I had really just been concerned about expressing myself and getting my story out there—and people have connected to that. But for this project, it was important for me to share the stories of the women I love and hold dear to my heart. I feel like they are just as banging and dynamic as me. And I want to give space and opportunity to women, period…"
On making space for Black women:
Earlier this year, Jazmine went viral for hitting social media and teaching us all how to perfect the art of the vocal--a skill she is notorious for. As it turns out, she's just looking out for the culture.
"I feel like we get caught up in thinking there's 'only one' of us. There can only be one R&B superstar; there can only be one rap girl at a time. That's not true. God was not stingy when He was giving out gifts. And you're not the only person. There are many other women, especially Black women, who can do what you do. And let's all create spaces for each other to get out there and do that…"
On self-care and finding the right therapist:
"The first five minutes I was holding back tears, because I was like, 'Wow, this is the first time I'm actually speaking about my feelings. And it's not in a song. It doesn't require notes. I don't need to impress anybody with what it is that I'm actually doing. This is the first time.' So I was holding back tears even doing that. But after that first five minutes, I was surprised by how much I was enjoying speaking to somebody, and somebody listening to me, and I didn't have to perform to do it.
"But finding the right therapist is a process—because I went to therapy one time, years ago, and I hated the experience, and I feel like it stopped me from going for a long time. And then I found this new lady, and it's a totally different experience. So you have to find the right person for you, that you actually want to open up to. But once you do that, a weight lifts off of you—just from speaking, just from telling your story. And that's what Heaux Tales was. It's like, 'Tell it, girl. Tell it. Set yourself free.'"
So here for all of this, whew!
Sullivan is headlining this year's ESSENCE Festival of Culture presented by Coca-Cola®. The full conversation between Jazmine Sullivan and Issa Rae for the July/August 2021 issue of ESSENCE, will be available on newsstands + digital platforms June 29.
Featured image via Paras Griffin/Getty Images for Tyler Perry Studios
Charmin Michelle is a southern native and creative spirit who works as a content marketer and events manager in Chicago. She enjoys traveling, #SummertimeChi, and the journey of mastering womanhood. Connect with her on Instagram @charminmichelle.
Claudia Jordan, Demetria McKinney & Jill Marie Jones On 'Games Women Play' & Dating Over 40
What do you get when you mix unfiltered truths, high-stakes romance, and a few well-timed one-liners? You get Games Women Play—the sizzling new stage play by Je’Caryous Johnson that’s part relationship rollercoaster, part grown-woman group chat.
With a powerhouse cast that includes Claudia Jordan, Demetria McKinney, Jill Marie Jones, Carl Payne, Chico Bean, and Brian J. White, the play dives headfirst into the messy, hilarious, and heart-wrenching games people play for love, power, and peace of mind. And the women leading this story? They’re bringing their whole selves to the stage—and leaving nothing behind.
From Script to Spotlight
The road to Games Women Play started over 20 years ago—literally.
“This script was written 20 years ago,” Jill Marie Jones said with a smile. “It was originally called Men, Money & Gold Diggers, and I was in the film version. So when Je’Caryous called me to bring it to the stage, I was like, ‘Let’s go.’” Now reimagined for 2025, the play is updated with sharp dialogue and modern relationship dynamics that feel all too real.
Demetria McKinney, no stranger to Je’Caryous Johnson’s productions, jumped at the opportunity to join the cast once again. “This is my third time working with him,” she shared. “It was an opportunity to stretch. I’d never been directed by Carl Payne before, and the chance to work with talent I admire—Jill, Claudia, Chico—it was a no-brainer.”
Claudia Jordan joked that she originally saw the role as just another check. “I didn’t take it that seriously at first,” she admitted. “But this is my first full-on tour—and now I’ve got a whole new respect for how hard people work in theater. This ain’t easy.”
Modern Love, Stage Left
The play doesn’t hold back when it comes to the messier parts of love. One jaw-dropping moment comes when a live podcast proposal flips into a prenup bombshell—leaving the audience (and the characters) gasping.
Demetria broke it down with honesty. “People don’t ask the real questions when they date. Like, ‘Do you want kids? How do you feel about money?’ These convos aren’t happening, and then everyone’s confused. That moment in the play—it’s real. That happens all the time.”
Jill chimed in, noting how the play speaks to emotional disconnect. “We’re giving each other different tokens of love. Men might offer security and money. Women, we’re giving our hearts. But there’s a disconnect—and that’s where things fall apart.”
And then Claudia, of course, took it all the way there. “These men don’t even want to sign our prenups now!” she laughed. “They want to live the soft life, too. Wearing units, gloss, getting their brows done. We can’t have nothing! Y’all want to be like us? Then get a damn period and go through menopause.”
Dating Over 40: “You Better Come Correct”
When the conversation turned to real-life relationships, all three women lit up. Their experiences dating in their 40s and 50s have given them both clarity—and zero tolerance for games.
“I feel sexier than I’ve ever felt,” said Jill, who proudly turned 50 in January. “I say what I want. I mean what I say. I’m inside my woman, and I’m not apologizing for it.”
Demetria added that dating now comes with deeper self-awareness. “Anybody in my life is there because I want them there. I’ve worked hard to need nobody. But I’m open to love—as long as you keep doing what got me there in the first place.”
For Claudia, the bar is high—and the peace is priceless. “I’ve worked hard for my peace,” she said. “I’m not dating for food. I’m dating because I want to spend time with you. And honestly, if being with you isn’t better than being alone with my candles and fountains and cats? Then no thanks.”
Channeling Strength & Icon Status
Each actress brings something different to the play—but all of them deliver.
“I actually wish I could be messier on stage,” Claudia joked. “But I think about my grandmother—she was born in 1929, couldn’t even vote or buy a house without a man, and didn’t give a damn. She was fearless. That’s where my strength comes from.”
For Jill, the comparisons to her iconic Girlfriends character Toni Childs aren’t far off—but this role gave her a chance to dig deeper. “If you really understood Toni, you’d see how layered she was. And Paisley is the same—misunderstood, but strong. There’s more to her than people see at first glance.”
Demetria, who juggles singing and acting seamlessly, shared that live theater pushes her in a new way. “Every moment on stage counts. You can’t redo anything. It’s a different kind of love and discipline. You have to give the performance away—live, in the moment—and trust that it lands.”
Laughter, Lessons & Black Girl Gems
The show has plenty of laugh-out-loud moments—and the cast isn’t shy about who steals scenes.
“Chico Bean gets a lot of gasps and laughs,” Claudia said. “And Naomi Booker? Every scene she’s in—she’s hilarious.”
But the play isn’t just about humor. It leaves space for reflection—especially for Black women.
“I hope we get back to the foundation of love and communication,” said Demetria. “A lot of us are in protector mode. But that’s turned into survival mode. We’ve lost softness. We’ve lost connection.”
Claudia agreed. “We’re doing it all—but it’s not because we want to be strong all the time. It’s because we have to be. And I just want women to know: You can have peace, you can be soft. But stop bringing your old pain into new love. Don’t let past heartbreak build walls so high that the right person can’t climb over.”
Final Act: Pack the House
If there’s one thing this cast agrees on, it’s that this play isn’t just entertainment—it’s necessary.
“Atlanta is the Black entertainment hub,” Claudia said. “We need y’all to show up for this play. Support the arts. Support each other. Because when we pack the house, we make space for more stories like this.”
Games Women Play is more than a play—it’s a mirror. You’ll see yourself, your friends, your exes, and maybe even your next chapter. So get ready to laugh, reflect, and maybe even heal—because the games are on.
Let’s make things inbox official! Sign up for the xoNecole newsletter for love, wellness, career, and exclusive content delivered straight to your inbox.
Feature image courtesy
Claudia Jordan, Demetria McKinney & Jill Marie Jones On 'Games Women Play' & Dating Over 40
What do you get when you mix unfiltered truths, high-stakes romance, and a few well-timed one-liners? You get Games Women Play—the sizzling new stage play by Je’Caryous Johnson that’s part relationship rollercoaster, part grown-woman group chat.
With a powerhouse cast that includes Claudia Jordan, Demetria McKinney, Jill Marie Jones, Carl Payne, Chico Bean, and Brian J. White, the play dives headfirst into the messy, hilarious, and heart-wrenching games people play for love, power, and peace of mind. And the women leading this story? They’re bringing their whole selves to the stage—and leaving nothing behind.
From Script to Spotlight
The road to Games Women Play started over 20 years ago—literally.
“This script was written 20 years ago,” Jill Marie Jones said with a smile. “It was originally called Men, Money & Gold Diggers, and I was in the film version. So when Je’Caryous called me to bring it to the stage, I was like, ‘Let’s go.’” Now reimagined for 2025, the play is updated with sharp dialogue and modern relationship dynamics that feel all too real.
Demetria McKinney, no stranger to Je’Caryous Johnson’s productions, jumped at the opportunity to join the cast once again. “This is my third time working with him,” she shared. “It was an opportunity to stretch. I’d never been directed by Carl Payne before, and the chance to work with talent I admire—Jill, Claudia, Chico—it was a no-brainer.”
Claudia Jordan joked that she originally saw the role as just another check. “I didn’t take it that seriously at first,” she admitted. “But this is my first full-on tour—and now I’ve got a whole new respect for how hard people work in theater. This ain’t easy.”
Modern Love, Stage Left
The play doesn’t hold back when it comes to the messier parts of love. One jaw-dropping moment comes when a live podcast proposal flips into a prenup bombshell—leaving the audience (and the characters) gasping.
Demetria broke it down with honesty. “People don’t ask the real questions when they date. Like, ‘Do you want kids? How do you feel about money?’ These convos aren’t happening, and then everyone’s confused. That moment in the play—it’s real. That happens all the time.”
Jill chimed in, noting how the play speaks to emotional disconnect. “We’re giving each other different tokens of love. Men might offer security and money. Women, we’re giving our hearts. But there’s a disconnect—and that’s where things fall apart.”
And then Claudia, of course, took it all the way there. “These men don’t even want to sign our prenups now!” she laughed. “They want to live the soft life, too. Wearing units, gloss, getting their brows done. We can’t have nothing! Y’all want to be like us? Then get a damn period and go through menopause.”
Dating Over 40: “You Better Come Correct”
When the conversation turned to real-life relationships, all three women lit up. Their experiences dating in their 40s and 50s have given them both clarity—and zero tolerance for games.
“I feel sexier than I’ve ever felt,” said Jill, who proudly turned 50 in January. “I say what I want. I mean what I say. I’m inside my woman, and I’m not apologizing for it.”
Demetria added that dating now comes with deeper self-awareness. “Anybody in my life is there because I want them there. I’ve worked hard to need nobody. But I’m open to love—as long as you keep doing what got me there in the first place.”
For Claudia, the bar is high—and the peace is priceless. “I’ve worked hard for my peace,” she said. “I’m not dating for food. I’m dating because I want to spend time with you. And honestly, if being with you isn’t better than being alone with my candles and fountains and cats? Then no thanks.”
Channeling Strength & Icon Status
Each actress brings something different to the play—but all of them deliver.
“I actually wish I could be messier on stage,” Claudia joked. “But I think about my grandmother—she was born in 1929, couldn’t even vote or buy a house without a man, and didn’t give a damn. She was fearless. That’s where my strength comes from.”
For Jill, the comparisons to her iconic Girlfriends character Toni Childs aren’t far off—but this role gave her a chance to dig deeper. “If you really understood Toni, you’d see how layered she was. And Paisley is the same—misunderstood, but strong. There’s more to her than people see at first glance.”
Demetria, who juggles singing and acting seamlessly, shared that live theater pushes her in a new way. “Every moment on stage counts. You can’t redo anything. It’s a different kind of love and discipline. You have to give the performance away—live, in the moment—and trust that it lands.”
Laughter, Lessons & Black Girl Gems
The show has plenty of laugh-out-loud moments—and the cast isn’t shy about who steals scenes.
“Chico Bean gets a lot of gasps and laughs,” Claudia said. “And Naomi Booker? Every scene she’s in—she’s hilarious.”
But the play isn’t just about humor. It leaves space for reflection—especially for Black women.
“I hope we get back to the foundation of love and communication,” said Demetria. “A lot of us are in protector mode. But that’s turned into survival mode. We’ve lost softness. We’ve lost connection.”
Claudia agreed. “We’re doing it all—but it’s not because we want to be strong all the time. It’s because we have to be. And I just want women to know: You can have peace, you can be soft. But stop bringing your old pain into new love. Don’t let past heartbreak build walls so high that the right person can’t climb over.”
Final Act: Pack the House
If there’s one thing this cast agrees on, it’s that this play isn’t just entertainment—it’s necessary.
“Atlanta is the Black entertainment hub,” Claudia said. “We need y’all to show up for this play. Support the arts. Support each other. Because when we pack the house, we make space for more stories like this.”
Games Women Play is more than a play—it’s a mirror. You’ll see yourself, your friends, your exes, and maybe even your next chapter. So get ready to laugh, reflect, and maybe even heal—because the games are on.
Let’s make things inbox official! Sign up for the xoNecole newsletter for love, wellness, career, and exclusive content delivered straight to your inbox.
Feature image courtesy