Jigga man, Jigga man. One-of-one, recently sitting down to give us an interview to feed the culture. He took the time to resurface with The Times for a rare interview, discussing family life, moolah, and surviving quarantine. And it's filled with quotables too, in the Jay-Z way: elevated conversations, and think pieces.
What mostly caught my attention, is the businessman himself, discussed his legacy when it's all said and done. And what was most surprising is he actually doesn't want to be remembered for his money at all. He prefers to be known for love. When asked about providing a solid foundation for his family, he said:
"Feeling loved is the most important thing a child needs, you know? Not 'Here's this business that I'm going to hand over to you, that I'm creating for you.' What if my child doesn't want to be in music or sports? I have no idea, right? But as long as your child feels supported, and feels loved, I think anything is possible."
jay z GIF by 50th NAACP Image AwardsGiphyHe continues:
"[We] just make sure we provide a loving environment, be very attentive to who they want to be. It's easy for us, as human beings, to want our children to do certain things, but we have no idea. We're just guides."
And although his career has opened many doors for others, he remains humble...somewhat. When discussing his legacy:
"I have no idea. I'm not beyond ego, right? Hopefully they speak of me [with] the names of Bob Marley and all the greats. But that's not for me to say."
Jay touches on other subjects during the interview that stands out, such as the Derek Chauvin trial and being socially active in the wake of protesting.
"It's very frustrating. As a human race we're still on basic things. We're still on 'Stop Asian Hate.' We can't sit and cry over spilled milk, but we do have to acknowledge that there's milk, right? Are we here today? No. Are we further than 50 years ago? Yes."
But in the end, Jay is most proud of how far he's come.
"I'm most proud of overcoming my circumstances and providing opportunity for people who look like me and who came from the same situation that I've come from."
Say that, Mr. Carter.
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RELATED
Now, I’ll be honest: as an avid TV-lover, I was well-prepared to hop on Zoom and jump into all the chatter around Bel-Air and her characters’ decisions. But after listening to her new EP Identity Crisis, I knew there was a lot more to talk about as well. During this exclusive conversation with xoNecole, Jazlyn Martin delved into the challenging journey she’s faced surrounding her identity, newfound fame, and family influence, and how it all plays a part in her art. Check it out!
xoNecole: So I know that your father is in the entertainment world, but when did you realize you shared the same passion?
Jazlyn Martin: I think it was very early on. I was a child who was full of attitude and fearlessness that would go after anything I wanted. I believe seeing my dad pursue music made me realize it was possible. I just had this hunger and fire, and my parents consciously fed and nurtured that - they are always all super supportive of whatever I do. So very, very early on, I was like, I'm meant to do this. And I just was like, I'm a star, and I know I'm a star.
xoN: Actually, let's talk about your family. What are some of your most important values, and how have your family and heritage played a part in shaping those values?
Jazlyn: I mean, my mom is like an angel; she's so graceful and kind, and I've had to work hard to get there. When I was young, I was very abrasive, headstrong, and stubborn. Whereas my mom gives an immense amount of grace in the way she carries herself. I had to learn that.
I think being strong is something I’ve always had. My parents always joke that they don't know where my personality came from. Because my dad is shy and timid and my mom is kind, and I'm a fireball. But my Dad always asked the important industry questions like, “Why do you want to do this?” And that instilled some purpose into me. It really carried me to keep going because it's so easy to be discouraged in this field, but that drive has helped me push through all of the challenges.
xoN: I bet. I have such a respect for actors and the way you all navigate the industry. Speaking of, let’s dig into “Bel-Air.” Were you a fan of the show? Did you have to go back and watch the episodes?
Jazlyn: So I actually did watch the show which is crazy because sometimes I don’t. I saw it was a reboot and was like, ‘Oh no, not another one.’ But I watched the first three episodes, realized how good it was, and ended up watching the whole season. I became a fan, and then a few months later, I booked the role!
I think the imagination is such a beautiful and powerful tool, and I feel like if you create something in your mind, it happens. It's a crazy thing, but I really just created Jackie's world - the house she grew up in, her parents leaving her, and everything. I created why she fell in love with dance. I really came at it from a human approach. If I see it, then the audience can see it.
xoN: Yeah, background plays into so much of how we deal with things, how we interact with people, and everything. And I feel like Jackie gets a lot of backlash. Like, we’ve all had a “Jackie Moment” to be real.
Jazlyn: She gets so much backlash! I just encourage people to give her grace and see the God in her because I do think she tells a lot of Black and brown girls' stories. People project on her, saying she’s too ratchet or hood, and I’m like does that mean she’s not loveable?
We have to be careful of what’s said and put out because Jackie has gone through things that I've never had to go through. The fact that she's alive and still highly functioning is a blessing. So what if she gets a little messy? I love her. Because she’s helped me extend empathy to people I don't necessarily want to or don't think deserve to have it. But she's 17, she's figuring it out, and she doesn't have parents. Like, that's such a huge factor.
"We have to be careful of what’s said and put out because Jackie has gone through things that I've never had to go through. The fact that she's alive and still highly functioning is a blessing. So what if she gets a little messy? I love her."
xoN: You mentioned how your character is viewed, which digs a bit into identity. So I want to talk a little bit about some of the emotional songs on your EP “Identity Crisis.” What inspired the track “Perfect?”
Jazlyn: When I was creating “Perfect,” I already had the EP title. So I kind of mapped out, like, the different conflicts I had in my head and categorized them into seven songs, and so one of my identity crises was being perfect. Because I feel like a lot of men tend to put women on pedestals. They're expected to be perfect - especially when you’re in the limelight. You know, you can't slip up. You can't say the wrong thing. Cancel culture is such a huge thing. And I just wanted to encourage people to give people grace to be themselves because that's not an easy thing to do.
I just wanted to take down this facade that I’m perfect because I never pretended to be. I never wanted to be. I think that's something people have placed on me, that I have it all figured out, I think I just carry it well, but that doesn't mean it's not heavy. I just wanted to be very vulnerable and honest. I think people think “perfect” is a compliment, but I think it's a cage because it doesn't allow room for error. It doesn't allow for you to be human and mess up and fail and take risks. So I just wanted to encourage grace.
xoN: Do you ever feel like you went through an identity crisis?
Jazlyn: I go through one constantly. Growing up, I didn't really have one. But I think as you get older and more aware and cognitive, you know how the world goes, and the world starts telling you who you are, instead of you deciding who you are. And I feel like being mixed played a big role in that, not feeling Black or Mexican enough. I wanted to belong to both worlds but didn’t so I was just “other.” That was an identity crisis in itself.
Also, being introduced to a level of fame has been interesting, too. I think we all go through identity crises all the time because we’re evolving and changing. It’s beautiful, but it’s also scary; you see yourself this one way, and then something happens, and there’s a shift. So yeah, I think it’s something we all go through but no one talks about.
"I think as you get older and more aware and cognitive, you know how the world goes, and the world starts telling you who you are, instead of you deciding who you are. And I feel like being mixed played a big role in that, not feeling Black or Mexican enough. I wanted to belong to both worlds but didn’t so I was just 'other.'"
xoN: I love that. And I know Hispanic Heritage Month is coming up, and you'll be speaking at the New York Latino Film Festival. Talk to me about what that moment means to you and what you hope to bring to the event. *Editor’s note: The interview was conducted before Hispanic Heritage Month began.
Jazlyn: I’m bringing some Afro-Latino-ness! I always grew up seeing Latinos being represented in a very specific way—very Spanish, not very Indigenous looking. So I'm really excited to bring the Black experience, with the Latino experience, to the stage because that's something a lot of people don't know exists.
People are always like, “Are you Black or Latina?” Well, I'm both! We were just dropped off in different parts. I’m excited to speak on that and highlight how prevalent anti-Blackness is within Latino communities. A lot of Afro-Latinos have faced an identity crisis because of it, including myself. It sometimes feels like you’re supposed to hate the other half of who you are.
For me, I held onto that little Black girl inside. I refused to let her go. And that’s what I want to represent when I speak—resilience and acceptance of our full selves. I’m also looking forward to meeting fellow Latino people, especially Afro-Latinos, and sharing our stories. It’s not a narrative that gets much attention, and I’m excited to represent.
xoN: I’m excited for you! Finally, with all the praise and recognition you’re receiving now, what has it been like to transition from working in music, dance, and acting to now being in the spotlight? How have you embraced this new level of fame?
Jazlyn: Um, it's overwhelming. I think that's the best word. Sometimes, I'm joyful, because I'm giving back to the community. People resonate with Jackie's stories and see themselves in her, which I think is the biggest compliment to me. But then sometimes, you know, I feel sad because I'm like, ‘Damn, I'm not doing enough,’ like I should be doing more. It's crazy, the industry is so fast-paced that you don't really try to celebrate wins. It's just a transition, an identity crisis of the like.
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For instance, take Denzel and Pauletta Washington who’ve been married 41 years this past June. Denzel has been very candid about how he’s found “his very good thing” (including the fact that she paid the cab fare for their first date for all of you coffee date haters) and Pauletta has made it very clear that marriage requires a lot of work; that there is no “secret formula.”
Then there’s Samuel L. Jackson and his wife of 45 years next August, LaTanya. Just recently, he made headlines for saying, “I’ve done s--- in my marriage that’s crazy, you know? She has, too, in her head, or whatever in reality, but you got to go, 'Is that a breakup offense?' Or is it just that we need to spend a little time together and get some understanding about it?"
And then there’s choreographer, director, producer, actor — so many other “ers” and “ors” supreme, Debbie Allen. She and her former NBA player husband, Norm Nixon, celebrated 40 years of marriage this past spring. There are a few pearls of wisdom that she shared in a PEOPLE article that I want to tell you about; then, I’d like to add a couple of tips of my own.
Hopefully, by the time this piece is done, all of the content will serve as confirmation that if you truly want a marriage that will really go the distance, it’s not always gonna be a rom-com (those are scripted films) or a fairy tale (those are unbelievable stories for children).
Y’all, a long-term marriage is definitely where the big kids play. It’s not for the faint of heart, the selfish of the soul, or the people who don’t say what they mean and mean what they say when they speak their wedding vows. Yeah, “til death do us part” requires sweat equity, for sure. When it comes to building something beautiful, it can be worth your while, though.
Three Things That Have Kept Debbie Allen’s Marriage Together
Okay, first, a big round of applause for the fact that Debbie will be 75 in January and Norm is 68 this month (yep, Debbie married a younger man. Somebody needed that pointed out as a confirmation for their own relationship…call it a feeling). Next, just look at how smooth they move and — shoot — how limber Norm is in this here IG post! Yeah, something tells me that they’ve got (eh hem) another thing that holds them together — yet I digress. LOL.
Anyway, when asked by PEOPLE what got her and Norm to the 40-year mark, this is what Debbie had to say:
“So wherever there have been differences and there have been. Honey, over 40 years, child, we've hit some rocks and hit some walls. But at the end of the day, we really love each other and we sleep together every night and we love our family.”
Did you catch that? No matter what valleys and challenges made their way into their relationship, 1) there is a genuine love that Debbie and Norm share; 2) they sleep together every night, and 3) there is a real love that they have for their family.
What I read between the lines is one, their love isn’t just a feeling; it is a commitment and honestly, that is not taught enough in these premarital sessions out here. Listen, if you are only going to get married based on how someone makes you feel, you really do need to remain single. FEELINGS ARE FICKLE.
Two, they share a marriage bed (Hebrews 13:4) — each and every night. There is no “go sleep on the couch” (I really don’t get how folks get put out of their own bed; imagine if your partner tried to do that to you). Now, peep that she didn’t say that they always go to bed happy or pleased with one another; she said that they make sure that, at the end of the day, they always share that sacred space.
And finally, there is a love that they have for family. Family is a unit. A part of what marriage is about is two people doing their absolute best to keep the family unit together. Yeah, I know that’s antiquated thinking for a lot of folks, yet that’s why many older couples make it past 40 years, and many younger ones can’t even seem to get to five. #justsaying
As I reflected on what Debbie said, it got me to thinking about conversations that I’ve had with married couples who have at least three decades of “I do” under their belts, along with some of the things that I’ve recommended to husbands and wives who desire to reach that goal.
If you’re curious about what some of those things are, I’ve included five of ‘em below.
1. Prepare for Seasons. Ahead of Time.
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Although it’s October, and I’m currently waiting for it to be “fall for real” in Music City (geeze), I’ve been getting clothing for the fall and winter seasons since my birthday (which is June). Why? Because the prices tend to be cheaper. The moral to the story here: don’t wait for the seasons to come before you get ready for them — that literally can cost you. Dearly.
This applies to the weather and the seasons of life too. Y’all, when it comes to marriage, specifically, I’ve been known to say that women deserve to have a big and lavish party called a wedding because, contrary to the popular assumption of far too many, you are a BRIDE for a day; then you are a WIFE for a lifetime. Scripture says that a wife is a helpmate (Genesis 2:18).
Even beyond that, the Hebrew word for helpmate is ezer kenegdo, which means lifesaver. If that doesn’t sound like something that requires a lot of energy and effort, I don’t know what does. And here’s the thing — if you go into your union aware of the fact that it’s not going to be a party all of the time, that you indeed will hit some, as Debbie put it, “rocks and walls,” you won’t be so shocked when they happen.
You will already have some tips, tools, and hacks in your arsenal to get through those seasons (check out “10 Hacks To Get Your Marriage Back On Track” and “The Greatest Hack To Get A Marriage Through The Tough Times”). Because, just like you can’t stop winter from coming, at the end of the day, all you can do is get ready; maturity teaches you the same thing about the “winter season” of marriage. Real talk.
2. Give the Mercy and Grace That You Want to Receive
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There’s a Scripture in the Bible that says, “mercies are new every morning” (Lamentations 3:22-23). Interestingly enough, what follows that line is, “great is your faithfulness.” Although this is actually talking about how God loves us, let’s not act like Scripture also doesn’t say that husbands should “love their wives like Christ loves the Church” (Ephesians 5:24). Yeah, from a spiritual angle, marriage is supposed to be a supernatural kind of love.
It’s not supposed to be easy, common or simple. Supernatural things never are. And I can only imagine how many marriages would last if Christians (who divorce more than any other faith in this country, by the way) decided to be merciful and faithful to their partners…on a daily basis.
Yet even beyond that particular religion, imagine what marriage would look like, period, if couples saw being merciful, all of the time, as being an act of faithfulness. And what does it mean to be a merciful person? Merciful people are compassionate; they try to do what they can to reduce the suffering of others. Merciful people are tender; they are sympathetic and gentle (in word, deed, and tone).
Merciful people are forgiving; this one right here? I am floored by how many people want to be forgiven for their mistakes and yet can’t seem to muster up some for others. Yeah, if you’re not a good forgiver, marriage is not for you. Merciful people are tolerant; if you don’t know how to be patient and endure some things, this is also a reason to not jump anybody’s broom.
Merciful people like to be generous and bless others — again, selfish people should never get married. All they care about is what they can get out of something or someone. And then there’s grace.
An uncomplicated way to define grace would be it’s about extending favor to another person — oftentimes when they don’t deserve it (that is key). Favor is about kindness and giving someone preferential treatment (your spouse definitely deserves that). Favor doesn’t keep record or score. It doesn’t go tit-for-tat. It doesn’t “match energy.”
Favor likes peace. Favor likes unity. Favor seeks solutions instead of problems. A lot of marriages struggle because while a certain level of love is present, there isn’t much mercy or grace to speak of.
3. Don’t Manipulate Intimacy
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Whether you’re married or not, you should never use sex (or any form of intimacy, really) to get what you want from another person — and yet, it happens all of the time.
Unfortunately, I can’t tell you how many wives I have had sessions with who will withhold sex in order to get an outfit that is out of the monthly budget or to deflect from being held accountable for something that they did wrong. Sex is not to be a manipulation tool — it’s not something that you are to use to control your partner.
Sex is a physical way to express love to and for your spouse, connect with them in a very deep and profound way, and spend a very special form of quality time together (check out “10 Wonderful Reasons Why Consistent Sex In Marriage Is So Important”). If you attempt to use sex for any other reason, all that really ends up doing is cause a breakdown of trust between you and your spouse, which can lead to resentment, emotional distance, and, before long, possible acts of infidelity.
And just how often should married couples have sex? Studies say that once a week (or four times a month) is a good indication of a healthy sex life between long-term couples. And before some of you hem and haw like that is too much — if you can prioritize 2.5 hours a day on social media, you can find an hour to be intimate with your partner once a week (check out “Married Couples, Here's How To Make (More) Time For Sex”). Yeah, let’s not play those games.
When you got married, you signed up to have a consistent sex life with your spouse (as much as is physically possible). If you didn’t want to treat sex like a marital responsibility…you already know what I am going to say, right? Sex isn’t a hobby in marriage; it is foundational for its longevity.
4. Treat Therapy Like Oil Changes
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There is nothing like a gaslighting person. Ugh. Right now, yep in real time, I’ve got a friend who recently went through a divorce and another who is going through one of the most challenging times in her marriage ever. The one who is divorced has an ex-husband who constantly tries to guilt trip her about “breaking up the family” when I can personally attest to the fact that his refusal to go through personal therapy and also marital counseling is what brought her to her breaking point.
Just one request and he refused (and still refuses). Then my other friend’s husband’s pride is completely off the charts. Somehow, he is constantly recommending therapy to others while believing that he is not a huge part of the problem in his own home (hypocrite much?).
It's another article for another time about how we need to remain as hypervigilant as possible about removing the stigma surrounding life coaching, counseling, and therapy (including sex therapy — check out “Have You Ever Wondered If You Should See A Sex Therapist?”). Even beyond that, when it comes to marriage specifically, we need to move past the position that the relationship needs to be two seconds away from divorce before seeking out a professional.
What I tend to advise to married folks is they should look at marriage counseling like a car that needs an oil change — like a car on the road, marriage is also its own kind of journey, and counseling can help spouses to “take each other’s temperature,” unpack any problems (or potential problems) and gain some insight that can help them to avoid certain “bumps in the road.”
That’s why, even once consistent sessions with my clients are complete, I will recommend that they at least check in with me a couple of times a year, preferably once a season. Why? Because, when they say that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, greater words have never been spoken when it comes to the importance and relevance of marriage counseling. Trust and believe, chile.
5. As You Change, Express It
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I can’t tell you how many times I have said that, as far as relationships are concerned, one of my favorite quotes is, “People change and forget to tell each other.” When it comes to Denzel and Pauletta, Samuel and LaTanya, Norm and Debbie, I think what makes me honor them most is the fact that…well, think of how many times you’ve gone through some transitions and evolutions, shoot, just in the past three years alone.
For two people to remain committed to one another as they are growing, oftentimes at different times in a myriad of different areas, that deserves its own level of props.
And that actually circles back to what I meant about not basing your marriage on mere feelings. While so many people say that they divorced because “they outgrew their spouse,” isn’t it interesting how some of their close friendships remained intact? That’s because we oftentimes have more patience, compromise, and flexibility for our friends — and oftentimes, that is because we actually value them more than our own partners…and that is because many of us weren’t taught to esteem marriage like we actually should.
Okay, but back to my main point on this one. It’s a given that you’re going to not be the exact same person that you were on your wedding day. Know who else isn’t going to be? Your spouse. True commitment says that we don’t leave because we change; we change, and then we express it to our partner so that we can find some common ground to continue on that path that we said we would walk on…together.
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Best-selling author Dr. Barbara DeAngelis once said, “Marriage is not a noun. It’s a verb. It isn’t something you get. It’s something you do. It’s the way you love your partner every day.” As I close this out, look back at Debbie and Norm on that IG post. Take in the love, humor, and connection that is shared between them.
Rome wasn’t built in a day. A marriage of 40 years isn’t either.
Oh, but how beautiful the end result of both is to behold, right?
Salute.
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Featured image by Rich Fury/Getty Images for The Wallis Annenberg Center for the Performing Arts